crete buildings, of 26,400 square feet at $8.30 per foot, for $219,000. And the 4 theaters have an estimated cost of $36,000. That is $9,000 apiece. Utilities and services are $31,800. That is a total of $287,000. They have no activities similar to this. The camps are in isolated locations. There is no building that they can use for this type of an activity.

Mr. DAVIS. This is the same type of construction we discussed in connection with Barstow?

General HILL. Yes, sir; it will be, sir. Colonel Robertson has the answer to that, sir.

Colonel ROBERTSON. The post exchange portion will be in a standard size building using the same form and so on as before. The theaters are of a different size and the old forms are not adaptable. They will be built of Butler buildings or some prefabricated steel building of that kind.

Mr. DAVIS. What about the overall water situation out there, General? Is that better or worse?

General HILL. These camps, sir, are not located in the basin of the Santa Margarita River, as it is called. They are further to the northward. We believe that the water situation there is ample for the troops that we have quartered there. Previous to the time of the construction of these camps we had men living in tents. In fact, we have just taken down a lot of tents when the 3d Division went out to Japan.

Mr. DAVIS. Do you consider these Butler-type buildings you spoke of as being permanent buildings?

General HILL. No, sir.

Mr. DAVIS. The exchanges would be, though?

General HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. DAVIS. What is the difference, then?

Colonel ROBERTSON. Could I answer that, sir?

General HILL. Yes, sir.

Colonel ROBERTSON. The original project of a 13,000-man camp was based on an estimate for quonset-hut and Butler-type buildings. We asked for authority to use such better construction as we could obtain for the same money. The whole project then is tailored to that price. The Bureau of Yards and Docks by good management was able to get the smaller buildings in with that price, and the larger buildings they could not get at that price, so we are still tied to the old authorization and we are down to that portion of the money for the theaters and post exchanges and we cannot get them for that money. That is, we could not get concrete construction with that

money.

There are some storerooms and instructional buildings, which are larger than the standard barracks size in those camps which are also of the same type of construction; prefabricated steel.

Mr. DAVIS. It is probably a dry enough climate so that you get good longevity out of that steel, but with that much variation in temperature it must be considered somewhat unsatisfactory.

Colonel ROBERTSON. This is Camp Pendleton, where we have a comparatively mild climate. It is a frost-free area. This is not the same as the Twentynine Palms.

Mr. DAVIS. You do not get extremely high temperatures at Camp Pendleton?

Colonel ROBERTSON. No, sir; not as high as Washington.

Mr. HAND. What is the general character of the land on which this camp is located, General?

General HILL. It is a little rough and rugged. It comes up from the coastal plain, then has the foothills; and just behind Camp Pendleton are the mountains. That is, the eastern portion is rather rugged.

Mr. HAND. Has it any substantial value for civilian purposes, agricultural or otherwise?

General HILL. No, sir. Probably a little cattle and sheep grazing, but not very much.

Mr. HAND. Does the Government require 124,000 acres of land to support this installation?

General HILL. They do for their tactical and combat training. Mr. HAND. Is that the primary function of the camp?

General HILL. Yes, sir. Training the units of the Fleet Marine Force for overseas duty.

Mr. HAND. Why are you planning to expand your enlisted personnel from the present number of 35,000 to a planned number of 57,000? Does that involve a transfer to some other camp, or is that an expansion of the corps itself?

General HILL. Might I answer that off the record?

Mr. HAND. Yes.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. HAND. What is the location of Camp Pendleton with regard to the nearest city?

General HILL. Camp Pendleton is about 60 miles north of San Diego. It has ample road and railroad connections. The Santa Fe Railroad runs right along one edge of it. It is right on the coast. Mr. HAND. Right on the coast?

General HILL. Yes, sir; so that people can get amphibious training. Mr. CEDERBERG. It is my understanding, then, that this is a basic training camp for new marines?

General HILL. That is what we call the boot training. That is the basic training. We have two. Parris Island, S. C., for the east coast, and then there is San Diego, Calif. When they get through with those camps they go elsewhere. They learn to fire a rifle and they learn to drill and they learn the fundamentals of being a marine. Then they go up to these places and get further training with a unit. Mr. CEDERBERG. How long do they remain at this post? Is there any definite time, or is it just as long as the unit is there?

General HILL. At the present time they are 10 weeks in a recruit camp. They go up to Camp Pendleton and they get another 2 months of training. Then they are eligible to go overseas as individuals.

Now, when the 3d and the 1st Divisions shoved off from Camp Pendleton they did not take the supporting troops, so there are still at lot of supporting troops being trained there as a unit.

Mr. CEDERBERG. The reason I ask that is that you have these 4 theaters at $9,000 apiece. They are Butler buildings, and so forth. I can understand and I think it would be all right if a man is not going to be living at a post for any length of time to put him in that kind of an arrangement. However, if it is a post where a man is going to be stationed for a year or two, I think he is entitled to a

little better building to go to the theater, and so forth, than a $9,000 building of this type. That is my own personal opinion.

General HILL. Agreed, sir.

Mr. CEDERBERG. Does this $9,000 include the theater ready for operation, including the seating, and so forth, inside the theater? Colonel ROBERTSON. This includes the building shell, sir. Mr. CEDERBERG. Just the shell.

Colonel ROBERTSON. It does not include the projection equipment nor the seats.

Mr. CEDERBERG. What funds do you use for the procurement of the seats and the projection equipment, and so forth?

Colonel ROBERTSON. This project is about 3 years old. We expended nearly $19 million on the other buildings in the camp, and we have on hand the necessary equipment.

MARINE CORPS SCHOOLS, QUANTICO, VA.

Station: Marine Corps schools.

Location: Quantico, Va.

Mission Train all officers and certain enlisted men of the Marine Corps in military science and amphibious warfare; investigation and research in tactics and techniques of amphibious warfare-all on a permanent basis. Established: May 14, 1917.

Mr. DAVIS. We will turn next to the request for post maintenance shops and an administration building at the Marine Corps School at Quantico, Va.

What is your situation there with respect to the existing administration and maintenance facilities, General?

General HILL. First, on the maintenance building, sir?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

General HILL. It is considered that the efficiency of the maintenance operations at the Maine Corps Schools, Quantico, will be greatly increased if proper shop facilities can be provided. This increased efficiency, together with the reduced cost of maintaining the existing shop buildings, should result in a substantial savings to the Government, probably resulting in the amortization of the cost in a relatively few years.

Present buildings are of steel structure with galvanized metal siding, very old, in an uneconomical state of repair and originally designed and intended for warehouses, which do not lend themselves to efficient operation as maintenance shops.

This project proposed the construction of a consolidated maintenance activity to provide adequate, well-lighted, and suitably designed shop space.

The present maintenance is in about 21 buildings spread all over the post. You cannot have very good control from an economical standpoint.

Mr. DAVIS. Now what is the situation with respect to your present administration building space?

General HILL. Our present administration building, sir, was built in 1920 as a stucco building and had about 10,000 square feet of space. That was too small. They moved into a barracks. The barracks cost, if I remember correctly, in 1930 about $450,000. It has office space for troops. It has a galley and it has bunk space-whether we are crowded or otherwise of from 300 to 500 men. The post headquarters is in that building.

We want a building that will be designed for post headquarters so that the personnel we have living in old quonset huts and barracks can move into a barracks which was constructed for that purpose.

I can say that the majority of housing at Quantico is quonset and wooden buildings. We have 7 barracks there which ordinarily should hold from 3,000 to 3,500 men. One of them is being used for a telephone exchange. One of them is being used for the headquarters of the post. One of them is being used, or a part of it is being used, for other purposes. It does not leave very much space for our permanent personnel.

Mr. DAVIS. Would you say the urgency at this time is in order to make the buildings that they are now using for this purpose available for barracks space?

General HILL. It will. It will be more economical and more efficient in the long run, because all of the components of the headquarters building are spread out all over the post. At the present time we have, I believe, around 6,000 men and officers living in quonset huts.

Mr. DAVIS. This appears to be a rather familiar request. I notice that in the report of this committee for the 1953 fiscal year identical items were deleted. Has there been any significant change in this requirement since last year?

Colonel ROBERTSON. We have taken this approach to solve the overall problem at Quantico. First, we gain 550-man capacity of

first-class barracks space. If we leave the headquarters where it is we should feel impelled to provide those men with another decent place to live. The present messhall in that barracks is not practical to be used, because it is too far from where the people are now forced to be billeted, so we have a messhall fully equipped out of circulation in that barracks.

Another incidental benefit is the fact that we have offices crowded into the post infirmary and the medical people are working under very inadequate conditions. It will release another ten-thousand-odd square feet for the purposes of the infirmary.

So if we were to construct those deficiencies in barracks and infirmary space in order to leave the administrative facilities where they are now we believe we would spend more money and not be as well off in the long run. We think that the proper approach is to build the proper administrative facility and free these already adequate facilities for the purposes for which they were intended.

Mr. DAVIS. The situation is about the same as it was last year, then. Colonel ROBERTSON. The situation as far as we are concerned is about the same; yes, sir.

Mr. HAND. General, in providing additional barracks space for 550 more men you are not taking more than a small bite at your problem of 6,000 men now housed in quonset huts and other buildings you do not consider entirely appropriate; is that not so?

General HILL. The 6,000 we have projected in the long-range plan, to replace those with barracks, too. They are another portion of the camp. Those who live in stucco and wooden buildings are close aboard, within three-quarters to a half a mile of this barracks building. We would eliminate those old buildings and move them into this good barracks. But our problem is immediate maintenance.

Mr. HAND. What is your normal working force for which this new administration building is designed?

Colonel ROBERTSON. We have a floor plan marked out with rooms and numbers of people who would be in each one, and the persons who would be in them, if that would answer the question, sir.

Mr. HAND. How many floors?

Colonel ROBERTSON. Two floors, sir, and basement. That is the second floor on top.

Mr. HAND. Can you give me the total number of persons the building would be designed to accommodate as a working force? If you cannot do it now, can you supply it for us?

Colonel ROBERTSON. Yes, sir; it is a matter of adding up the numbers on those sheets. We have it shown by room.

Mr. HAND. Would you supply that figure for us, Colonel?
Colonel ROBERTSON. Yes, sir.

(The information is as follows:)

ADMINISTRATION BUILDING, MARINE CORPS SCHOOLS, QUANTICO, VA.

1. There is a total of 447 persons who occupy office space of 30,282 square feet. This amounts to 67.7 square feet per person in offices.

Mr. HAND. I have just a question about the post maintenance shop. Is it your idea, General, to consolidate all of your maintenance functions which are now scattered among some 23 buildings into this 1 building?

General HILL. Yes, sir.