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Mr. GODFREY. I wouldn't take the time except I know you are vitally interested in this. This is the manyears of employment, both at Federal and county levels.

The black dot shows the county employment and the Federal employment shows in the grey or black area here.

This shows that peak employment was reached in 1958 when we were operating the soil bank program. We have come down, and even with the feed grain program and the wheat stabilization program we are down below the peak employment in 1958.

This 1964 estimate includes expenses for the 1964 wheat program but not a 1964 feed grain program because none is authorized for 1964. The employment level would have to increase some if a feed grain program is authorized for 1964.

The next one you have been interested in through the years and one we are quite proud of, shows actual man-years of employment here in black, in our commodity offices. Our commodity offices make up about half of our Federal employment in ASCS. This shows the employment that we would have if they were still producing per person as they produced in 1952. In other words, in 1964 we will be producing 313 percent per person of what we were in 1952 in our commodity offices.

If we were at the present time producing as we were in 1952, we would have to have more than 12,000 employees in commodity offices, where now we have less than 4,000.

I take pride in the fact that it has actually increased nearly a 100 points since 1960. It was 216 percent of the 1952 level in 1960. For 1964 it will be 313 percent of the 1952 level.

This shows the county office employment which the chairman spoke of a few moments ago.

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EXCLUDES MAN-YEARS RELATING TO POSSIBLE 1964 FEED GRAIN PROGRAM

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Mr. GODFREY. The peak was reached there also in 1958, at the height of the acreage reserve program. In 1960 the acreage reserve program was knocked out completely. Then we came back in 1961 with the feed grain program which caused an increase; in 1962, with feed grain and wheat stabilization, but 1964 is showing the projections of decreased employment because of increased efficiency. It does not include a 1964 feed grain program.

There was some confusion last week and the week before last in regard to the Secretary's speech made at Des Moines in regard to employment at ASCS.

The facts were clear, that we were comparing the actual head count in ASCS as of January 1963 with prior years. It is true that the budget estimate made last summer did not reflect this, but it showed that as of January this year we were headed in the direction of reducing personnel, and we are now prepared to submit a budget amendment to show that we are accomplishing this.

This completes the presentation of the charts.

Mr. HORAN. At that point, you said non-Federal. However, Federal moneys go into the payment of those people, do they not?

Mr. GODFREY. Yes, sir; but they are not considered civil service employees.

Mr. HORAN. I am very much aware of that. That has been brought to my attention. However, I don't think we, in talking about the expenditures of Federal moneys, should make a distinction about nonFederal employment as such.

Mr. GODFREY. I would agree that they are semi-Federal employees, regardless of how you consider them.

Mr. HORAN. That is the point I make. And, of course, as such there is the urge to have fringe benefits.

Mr. WHITTEN. If the gentleman will recall, we passed a bill which gave them

Mr. HORAN. I know you did. And you have already raised this question.

Mr. WHITTEN. Certainly they are Federal workers, which I think should be listed along with the Federal employees for the purpose of describing the size of the Government. However, I think to do it in one place you need to take it all the way back where any man who is paid by the Federal Government, devotes all his time to the Federal Government, is a Federal worker however technical you may get. If you do it for 1 year you need to do it for other years to get a true comparison.

Mr. GODFREY. You would have to do it all the way back.

GENERAL STATEMENT ON ASCS BUDGET FOR 1964

Since we have taken so much time here, if it is satisfactory with the committee, my statement has been presented, and we will insert it in the record.

Mr. WHITTEN. I shall be glad to have it inserted in the record at this point.

(Mr. Godfrey's statement follows:)

Mr. Chairman, I welcome this opportunity to explain our budget and to discuss the ASCS-CCC programs, which benefit both American farmers and con

sumers.

First, I would like to furnish a little background on program and management developments during the last year or so, using some charts and informal notes and then continue with an explanation of budget increases and decreases.

SUMMARY OF BUDGET REQUESTS

I will comment briefly on each of our appropriation requests. At this point, Mr. Chairman, I offer for the record a summary showing our appropriation requests, and also showing funds received from and made available to other agencies.

Expenses, ASCS

Our request for funds under "Expenses, ASCS," totals $212,054,000, a reduction of $11,867,463 below the comparable figures for 1963. This consists of (1) a decrease of $18,592,000 in the cost of administering the feed grain and wheat stabilization programs; (2) a decrease of $739,464 in other administrative expenses; (3) an increase of $2,047,500 to provide a contingency reserve; (4) an increase of $944,000 for expenses previously paid from other appropriations; (5) a reduction of $211,000 to reflect estimated savings due to installation of a centralized data processing operation for payroll and personnel data; and (6) an increase of $4,683,501 for pay and postal costs pursuant to Public Law 87793. Excluding (a) mandatory pay and postal increases, (b) a contingency reserve which will remain unobligated unless unforeseen workload develops, and (c) amounts previously budgeted under program funds, the reduction is $19,542,464, despite an increase of $1 million for the land use adjustment program.

Language is requested to transfer to and merge with this account funds from the limitation on CCC administrative expenses and other funds available to ASCS for authorized activities. This is in keeping with the intention of reducing paperwork which resulted in the establishment by the Congress last year of the consolidated appropriation for expenses, ASCS. The Senate report on the 1963 agricultural appropriation bill included this statement, "For some time the committee has been concerned about the appropriation procedures which required appropriations or limitations within appropriations to finance the operations of various farm programs. A consolidated appropriation will simplify budgetary and accounting requirements and recordkeeping."

I offer for the record at this point the status of program material from the explanatory notes on expenses, ASCS.

Sugar Act program

An appropriation of $80 million is requested, which is an increase of $2,350,000 above 1963. This increase reflects expanded domestic production as authorized in legislation enacted last year. This estimate assumes that $22,560,415 of payments on the 1963 crop will be deferred for payment from the 1965 appropriation. I offer for the record at this point the status of program material on the Sugar Act program.

Agricultural conservation program

An appropriation of $220 million is requested in order to finance the $250 million advance program authorization enacted last year for the agricultural conservation program. The advance program authorization for next year is proposed to be reduced to $150 million.

I offer for the record at this point the status of program material on the agricultural conservation program.

Land use adjustment program

An appropriation of $27 million is requested, an increase of $21 million above the proposed supplemental estimate for 1963. The Food and Agriculture Act of 1962 authorized the Secretary to enter into agreements in advance of appropriations in order to initiate a pilot program of converting land from crop production to pasture, trees, water storage, wildlife facilities, or recreational projects. The Secretary was also authorized to extend expiring conservation reserve contracts for 1 more year. The estimate of $27 million covers the estimated payments in fiscal year 1964.

Conservation reserve program

An appropriation of $294 million is requested for the conservation reserve program, a reduction of $11 million below the $305 million shown in the printed budget for 1963.

I offer for the record at this point the status of program material on the conservation reserve program.

Public Law 480

An appropriation of $1,452 million is requested for title I under the budget, as amended. This is a decrease of $136,804,000.

An appropriation of $215,451,000 is requested for title II, a reduction of $34,549,000, below 1963.

An appropriation of $79 million is requested for title IV, an increase of $39 million above 1963. Expenses of shipments in 1964 are expected to be $298,412,000 compared with $247,988,000 in 1963.

I offer for the record at this point the status of program material on Public Law 480.

International Wheat Agreement

An appropriation of $92,356,000 is requested for the International Wheat Agreement, an increase of $11,138,000 about 1963. Expenses of shipments in 1964 are estimated at $71,700,000, a decrease of $5,500,000 below 1963. There is a large increase to recover estimated unrecovered 1963 costs borne by CCC.

I offer for the record at this point the status of program material on the International Wheat Agreement.

Bartered materials for supplemental stockpile

An appropriation of $82,860,000 is requested for the barter program, a decrease of $42,140,000 below 1963. The House report on the 1963 agricultural appropriation bill included this statement: "The need for the materials acquired under this program is diminishing. Only a few of the items acquired in 1961 are still neded for defense stockpiling purposes. The committee feels, therefore, that this program should be held to the present level for the next year and the overall program should be thoroughly reviewed for the future." This program has been reviewed, and the emphasis has been shifted from acquiring strategic and other materials for the stockpile to assisting in the procurement programs of other agencies for economic assistance and defense purposes abroad.

I offer for the record at this point the status of program material on the barter program.

Reimbursement for CCC net realized losses

An appropriation of $2,799,400,000 is requested in order to reimburse CCC for fiscal year 1962 net realized losses. This is an increase of $717.6 million above 1961 realized losses. The largest part of the increase, about $534.8 million, represents increased feed grain and wheat stabilization payments. The feed grain and wheat stabilization payments are an initial investment which will ultimately result in savings to the Government. There are decreases totaling $133.3 million in storage and handling expense, transportation expense, interest expense, and administrative and nonadministrative expense. There is a decrease of $44.7 million in commodity export payments. There are increases of $121.4 million due to loss on sales, $212.2 million donations, $22.4 million in reseal storage expense, and $4.3 million in other program expense.

CCC administrative expenses

A limitation of $43,875,000 is requested for CCC administrative expenses, an increase of $686,500 above 1963. Excluding pay and postal costs, this is a decrease of $507,500 below 1963. Of the total, $1,417,000 is proposed to be transferred to salaries and expenses, Foreign Agricultural Service; $39,204,000 is proposed to be transferred to expenses, ASCS along with other CCC funds; and the remainder represents reserve for contingencies and sales expansion.

I offer for the record at this point the staus of program material relating to the Commodity Credit Corporation. We will be glad to answer

This completes my statement, Mr. Chairman. questions.

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