Montgomery County, Prince Georges County, the Tenth Congressional Ditrict of Virginia, and those other portions of Virginia which are within the Beltway? Have you discussed this in any way with Members of the Congress from those Districts? General PRENTISS. I've never discussed it with anybody, including my wife. Mr. FAUNTROY. I find it an interesting recommendation. I think it reflects a recognition of the fact that we do need an economic base for this city. I think it speaks well to the point made to Mr. McKinney that if United States Steel were here and paying not only land taxes but corporate taxes, we would not have the problem that we have in running the city and I commend you for that. I hope that you would consult with other Members of the Congress and help us in this because I think it might be a very useful thing to get that land and that money back. Finally, I was puzzled. Why does the Oldest Inhabitants restrict women from membership? General PRENTISS. You'll have to ask the founding members and they are all dead. That's the way it's been ever since 1865. Mr. FAUNTROY. All right. Well, I'll meet them. Finally, Mr. Chairman, the press has made some fairly serious charges against our Chairman. I wonder if you might just subpoena them to clear up some of these things. Mr. MCMILLAN. It will take a little time to write out a subpoena. I will wait until later. Mr. FAUNTROY. All right. Thank you. Mr. MCMILLAN. Mr. Cabell has a question. SCHOOL EXPENDITURES Mr. CABELL. This is in response to the statement made by one of the Members with reference to the school board and the operation of it. I would like the record to reflect that the school board which is an elected board, freely elected, that the elected school board makes up its budget and that it's subject to the approval of the Commissioners, Council, and the Budget Bureau. Now, notwithstanding the inference that everyone involved is penurious with reference to the amount allocated to the schools, I would like for the record to reflect that the D.C. School District is today spending in excess of $1300 per pupil per school year, which is the highest amount of any city of comparable size in the United States. I do not think that anyone has been penurious with the School Board and the school administration in terms of dollars. Mr. FAUNTROY. Would the gentleman yield? Mr. CABELL. Yes. Mr. FAUNTROY. I would like the record to show that no other city in the country functions without the benefit of county and state contributions to their public education. Mr. CABELL. In the comparable figures which I call attention to, all states monies and all Federal impacted aid monies and all other monies coming to the school board are included in that comparative statement. Mr. FAUNTROY. That's precisely the reason that I say that the District of Columbia is different. We do not have county, we do not have state. Mr. CABELL. But you get the money. You get the money. From whence it comes is insignificant. You have the money. Mr. FAUNTROY. It would be very interesting, Mr. Chairman, to note the extent to which those jurisdictions are urban and impacted in the sense of the District of Columbia, being solely an urban center and having no spread of population. Mr. CABELL. I will see that such a chart defining those cities that I have reference to is made a part of the record. Mr. GUDE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to say one word. We are holding important hearings today and the Chairman is often, I think, given the lash as if somehow he is responsible for the absence of the Committee Members and that he is derelict in his duty. I think that this gets to one of the fundamental problems we have here in Congress, that the D.C. Committee is a second Committee for members. Some of the Members here have other Committee assignments which are very close to the direct interests of their constituents. The law of politics deem that Members will be attending a meeting of their other Committee. This is political nature and human nature. Our Chairman has often written letters and said that he hopes there would be full attendance and that he hopes we can get quorums at these meetings, but few members show up. And I think it is the structure of Congress rather than the Chairman's fault that this happens. General Prentiss, I gather that if this proposal that you made as an alternative passed, that if I ran for Congress I might be running against Mr. Fauntroy Mr. FAUNTROY. Mr. Broyhill, too. Mr. GUDE. I was happy when we got the non-voting Delegate from the Virgin Islands. I thought that sounded good, and maybe that will be an escape hatch if this comes about. I would like to ask you one question, General Prentiss, in seriousness. Besides the question of self-government or Home Rule, what is your feeling about the citizens of the District of Columbia having voting representation in Congress? Mr. Fauntroy has a vote on the Committee. He does not have a vote on the floor, and of course the District people have no representation in the Senate. What is your feeling? I know that is not the subject matter of our hearing, but I believe it pertains significantly to the rights of the people of the District as citizens. General PRENTISS. I am of the opinion that we should have it. I would be in favor of a vote in the House and the Senate. Mr. GUDE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. MCMILLAN. Thank you very much. We certainly appreciate your taking your time to be here this morning It seemed like old times to have you back. Mr. Fauntroy, I believe I was the only one here who heard your testimony, but if you would like to answer any questions if any of the Members would care to ask Mr. Fauntroy questions. You gave a good statement here the other day, I thought, and if you all want to look it over and ask him any questions. STATEMENT OF HON. WALTER E. FAUNTROY-Resumed Mr. MCMILLAN. The first question I would like to ask, if we get home rule here, how would that help you in any way as a delegate? Mr. FAUNTROY. First of all, Mr. Chairman, it would give the people of the District of Columbia at least eleven elected city council members who are responsible to them and share some of the case work burden that I have, just as perhaps every other Representative here shares some of the local concerns and local priorities with mayors and city councils of the cities in their own districts. Mr. MCMILLAN. Do you think it would do more than the present Council could do in assisting you in your work? Mr. FAUNTROY. Without question, that is a part time Council. It has no authority over the budget of the city. It does a commendable job— I must say in all candor that I am sure that it gives more attention to District affairs than the very fine men on this District Committee can afford to give for the reason that they are sent here to deal with national prorities by people from their districts. Mr. MCMILLAN. They will have one jurisdiction, and that is to represent the people in the District, and we represent the entire Nation, the Federal Government interests, whether they be the people in the District. Mr. FAUNTROY. That's a great burden upon you, I'm sure. FEDERAL INTEREST IN WASHINGTON Mr. NELSEN. You know, one of the complexing things that we always face people will say home rule and you ask them what do you mean and they will get about as many versions as the number of people you talk to, their interpretation of what you are talking about, and one of the very frustrating things that I have always found to be prevailing is the fact that a Federal City has a Federal interest, it has a parochial and local interest, and it would seem to me in fairness to the people I represent, that they never give up every voice-all voice in the Federal City, but we have our Federal interests to be concerned about. And then, at the same time, I think we also need to move in the direction of motivating and harnessing local leadership to carry forth the needs of the District in a parochial way, local municipal way, but there never seems to be a middle road. It's got to go all the way one way or all the way the other, and never is there an attitude of taking the middle course where our interests are represented as well as the interests of the local people. Do you have any comment? Mr. FAUNTROY. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I think the first problem is one which is always characteristic of a community where you have no access to the democratic process. It is very confusing sometimes without the political process to define issues, to discover who speaks for the people, and what the people are thinking. Thanks primarily to your initiative, we have had an election, a political process for at least a non-voting delegate around which the primary issue was self-government and what form it should take. We opted for at least I opted for Home Rule as had been discussed over the years with the mayor, elected mayor and city council and broad legislative authority ascribed to that mayor and city council in a rather vigorously contested primary and general election that was clearly ratified at least by the majority of the people of the city. We then introduced a proposed Home Rule bill with hearings in each of the eight wards and came up with one bill before us, H.R. 9499, which outlines what I think to be a middle of the road position. There are those, you may have heard, who say that Congress should have nothing to do with the affairs of the District of Columbia, and this bill does not take that road. It acknowledges the fact that the Congress has ultimate legislative authority over the District of Columbia and reserves that right for the Congress. I think that all of us would be more clear on the views of the people of the city and would find them not offensive if we were allowed to engage in a political process-an election process, with the authority going along with the office that would, on the one hand, attract candidates who would be willing to work full-time at it and, on the other hand, give people a feeling that their votes would, in fact, result in the kind of self-government that we who grew up in the District of Columbia learned about in our elementary schools, junior high schools and senior high schools here, but have never really had an opportunity to exercise because of our special case as citizens of the District of Columbia, which happens to be the nation's capital. FEDERAL PAYMENTS TO THE DISTRICT Mr. NELSEN. Somebody made the comment to me this morning that if we pass a bill here that turns over the destiny of this city to a totally elected combination, without question there would be the need of a Federal payment, and that will go into the hands of a local authority to spend the money. We have been talking about taxation without representation, but how do I face my people back home when I ask them to put up $190 million as a Federal contribution to the District, and about $300 million of Federal grants to the District, and my voters have no voice on that. This, again, is a problem that we face, those of us who live out away from the city; actually, sometimes it becomes almost a political obstacle, a campaign issue against us. I just want you to be aware of the fact that if we do put up Federal moneys certainly you would expect that there should be some coordinated effort for the Federal city. Would you feel this is fair? Mr. FAUNTROY. Yes, I would, Mr. Nelsen. The fact is that I think we could help your constituents in two regards. I think, first, we could assure them that if the Senate passed a bill or the bill which I proposed becomes law, that the people still would be protected by the Congress's retaining the ultimate legislative authority over the affairs of the District of Columbia. Mr. NELSEN. Some of the proposals in the Judiciary Committee call for two Senators and Representatives in the Congress. One of my colleagues from out home made the comment to me that there are more people in Minneapolis than there are here in Washington. Maybe they, too, should have two Senators. To me, the House of Representatives is a peoples' forum. I think it is sort of the place where a person like yourself brings the message of the people you are representing, and it seems to me that if we had the legislation providing for two Senators and two representatives, or whatever it would be, and then it comes up and it dies, it dies because, it seems to me, it was never intended to go any farther than that. I have always maintained that if you're going to legislate successfully, you move toward an attainable goal, and this is the approach that I made in your case, legislation for a delegate. I figured you were the attainable goal, so that was a first step in my judgment, and the elected school board was another, and the Chairman joined with me on that bill, as I recall, and we passed that bill. I also want to mention that the Chairman's amendment on the Federal payment is the best payment you ever had viz., $170 million. This was the Chairman's part in this, and sometimes that is overlooked. Mr. Fauntroy, I am just presenting the things that we face back home and I know the people back home expect me to speak for them as far as our Federal city is concerned. I feel I should, and at the same time I have always moved in such a manner that I also want the people here also to feel that this is their country, that they should have a voice, and they should have an opportunity to provide leadership. It is hard to find that middle road sometimes. Have you had any repercussions from the duet you and I sang at the YMCA? Mr. FAUNTROY. No, and as a matter of fact, I think if we were able to sing it in Minneapolis it would probably help the home rule cause. But, Mr. Nelsen, I think the people of the city could be very helpful in enlightening you people in the country as to what the problems are. For example, I would certainly want to inform the gentleman from Minneapolis that they don't have as many people as we have in the District of Columbia. According to the census figures they have about 431,000 people there, and with those 400,000 people, I'm sure they're entitled to at least one voting representative in the House, and we 800,000 don't have a voting representative in the House even though, I'm sure, we pay probably about twice as much in Federal taxes as they. We pay about $900 million a year-the people who live within the confines of this city-in Federal taxes, and yet have no voice, no vote, on what the country, the Federal government, does with those funds for the health and welfare and defense of the nation. I think that were the people of the country aware of the fact that we have that there are ten states with fewer people in them than live in this city, that have two Senators and six of them have two Representatives representing the people on national questions, they would understand and support giving those of us who are citizens of the nation, born in this country, reared at the very seat of the Democracy, having the principles of democracy reinforced every time we go downtown 72-762-72-13 |