courses of training are authorized. Funds are lacking to carry out this training to a satisfactory degree; but the provision of funds for the Merchant Marine Naval Reserve would, it is believed, be more productive than similar amounts appropriated for a new service.

As to the training of merchant-marine personnel, training of unrained personnel to enable them to enter the merchant-marine service is provided for in the new proposed sections 216 (a) and (c). The proficiency of this personnel, in their merchant-marine duties, is evidenced by licenses and certificates issued by the Department of Commerce. Further training for advancement is best accomplished by the practice of their calling. Further training for national defense duties should obviously be specifically under the control of the Navy Department.

The CHAIRMAN. Captain, as I understand the matter, those who are advocating this United States Merchant Marine Service are seeking to put it under the Coast Guard, and at the same time not to interfere with the State schools which have to do with the training of officers. Captain COPELAND. Yes, sir. The Navy Department is opposed in principle to the enactment of section 216 (b), feeling that the United States Merchant Marine Service will duplicate the already existing Merchant Marine Naval Reserve. In other words, the bill proposes to create a service composed of licensed and unlicensed personnel of the merchant marine and to give them ranks comparable to ranks in the Coast Guard, which means comparable to ranks in the Navy. And the Navy Department feels this will be a complicated sort of a situation and that a properly trained merchant-marine personnel, and that part of a merchant-marine trained personnel which exists as a naval auxiliary in any sense, should be under the control of the Navy, which is charged with the responsibility for national defense.

The CHAIRMAN. As I understand the practical situation, Captain, the unions oppose any school. They do not think it is necessary. Then, as between the Navy and the Coast Guard-not loving either they appear to love the Navy less, because the Navy has a military discipline which is somewhat out of harmony with the somewhat rough and ready activity of the Coast Guard.

Captain COPELAND. Yes; I understand so.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think there is any foundation for that? Captain COPELAND. Well, I do not know about it from first hand, sir; but I shall touch upon what the Navy Department thinks about that matter.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Captain COPELAND. I am referring to a merchant-marine personnel now. The proficiency of this personnel, in their merchant-marine duties, is evidenced by licenses and certificates issued by the Department of Commerce. Further training for advancement is best accomplished by the practice of their calling. Further training for national-defense duties should obviously be specifically under the control of the Navy Department. The Navy Department takes that stand because the Navy Department is the department of the Government that is charged with that responsibility at the present time. Any funds appropriated for this purpose should be utilized in training the Merchant Marine Naval Reserve. We have not been able to get money for that purpose, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN, No.

Captain COPELAND. We got a very little, last year, for a start.

The CHAIRMAN. Captain, since you have broken in, on your own comments: There was a further suggestion from the unions that the Maritime Commission appoint a committee of 10, with 5 union men or sailors and 5 men from the service. Is that right?

Captain COPELAND. Yes; there was to be a committee to supervise training.

Mr. JAMES P. MULLEN. That is correct, sir.

Captain COPELAND. (b) Section 44, pages 31 to 32: Amend proposed section 215 (a) by adding the following proviso:

Provided, That the Maritime Commission is hereby authorized and directed to make available to the Navy Department from such funds as may be appropriated to carry out the provisions of this section, such amounts as are necessary to build, as needed, replacements for ships loaned to State marine schools or ships required by new State marine schools established under authority of title 34, sections 1121 and 1122, United States Code, as amended: Provided further, That the Maritime Commission is hereby authorized and directed to make available to the Coast Guard, from such funds as may be appropriated to carry out the provisions of this section, such amounts as necessary to train unlicensed personnel for service in the merchant marine.

This is the reason for that: The State marine schools are a satisfactory source for the training of licensed personnel. They can be expanded either in number, under existing authorization, or in scope by broadening the field of candidates beyond the residents of the respective States to meet all requirements. The Navy Department, because of its interest in these students as prospective Merchant. Marine Naval Reserve officers, does not desire to supplant the State marine school system, but requires funds to supply these schools with proper ships to conduct their training. The Coast Guard is a suitable agency to train unlicensed personnel for the merchant marine. No facilities, other than service at sea on marine vessels, now exist for this training. The Navy Department is interested in this training, from the standpoint of national defense, but considers that the Coast Guard is well fitted to undertake it and carry it out.

(c) Section 5, pages 4 and 5: Renumber section 5 as section 5 (a), and add a new amendment, section 5 (b), as follows:

Section 5 (b), section 302 of the Merchant Marine Act, 1936, is hereby amended by renumbering subparagraph (h) as (i), and inserting a new subparagraph (h) as follows:

"(h) Within 1 year of the passage of this act, 20 percent of the unlicensed personnel employed on vessels on which an operating differential subsidy is paid under authority of title 6, or employed on the Commission's vessels, shall, if eligible, be members of the United States Naval Reserve."

The CHAIRMAN. How many years?"

Captain COPELAND. Within 1 year of the passage of the act, 20 percent, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Captain COPELAND (continuing):

Each year thereafter, an additional 10 percent of the unlicensed personnel so employed shall, if eligible, be members of the United States Naval Reserve: Provided, however, That the maximum number of unlicensed personnel required to be members of the United States Naval Reserve shall not exceed 50 percent. The reason for that is as follows: Section 302 (9) of the Merchant Marine Act of 1936 requires all deck and engineer officers similarly employed, if eligible, to be members of the United States Naval Reserve. A requirement that a part of the unlicensed personnel also be

members of the United States Naval Reserve will better prepare vessels subsidized for the national defense, to support the Navy in an emergency.

Minor changes are recommended as follows:

Section 5, page 4: Amend proposed section 301 (b) (5) by substituting, in line 20, the words "licensed and unlicensed personnel" for the words "licensed officers."

The reason for this is that if the amendment with reference to requiring a certain percentage of the unlicensed personnel in the Naval Reserve is adopted, the above language should be changed to

conform.

Section 5, page 4: Amend proposed section 301 (b) (4) to read:

The uniform stripes and other officer's identifying insignia shall be of gold braid or woven gold or silver material, to be worn by officers, and no member of the ship's crew other than licensed officers shall be allowed to wear any uniform with such officer's identifying insignia.

The reason for that is that the present language of the act has caused doubt as to whether the wearing of any decorations, medals, or other insignia not made of braid is forbidden. This amendment would remove doubt as to the propriety of making the specially designated insignia described in section 301 (b) (3) for licensed officers of the Naval Reserve of metal.

The Chief of Naval Operations, in commenting upon this, makes two comments regarding matériel matters and not in connection with the personnel matters. I believe they are going to present those in a bill; but I should like to include that-

It is recommended that section 215 of S. 3078 be amended by the insertion of the words "and requisition" after the word "operation," in the third line of this section, and the elimination of the "and" between "construction" and "operation." The amended section would then read:

"The provisions of this act, insofar as they are practically or appropriately applicable, are extended to the construction, operation, and requisition of aircraft."

It is believed that it is the intention of the bill to place aircraft engaged in overseas transportation, under the jurisdiction of the Maritime Commission, under the same general provisions as ships. The wording of this section at present leaves some doubts as to the requisitioning powers of the Commission ; and the proposed change would definitely clear this up.

While not covered in S. 3078, it is considered that section 902 (a) of the original act should be amended to provide for the requisitioning of vessels "whenever a national emergency is imminent," as well as "during a national emergency," as now provided.

That is all, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Captain.

Captain COPELAND. Thank you, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I think that is all for tonight. We have been in session since 11 o'clock this morning, and it is now 6 p. m.

(Whereupon, at 6 p. m., an adjournment was taken, subject to

call.)