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for licensed officers that will replace that system or interfere with it, or whether the training system for licensed officers will be additional, or what the case may be.

Thé CHAIRMAN. What is the use of training these men if they cannot get on the ships?

Captain COPELAND. Ordinarily they can get on the ships; that is just a transient situation, at the present time.

There has been no real difficulty in the past. These men all have opportunities to go to sea. Furthermore, they are very successful in reaching the high places, not only in the operation of ships but in the operation and administration of shipping generally.

The CHAIRMAN. Captain, I am glad you have such optimism. But I still think they will have some trouble for awhile.

Have you any further statement, sir?

Captain COPELAND. The Navy Department, I think, is in agreement with any training system under the auspices of any agency designated by Congress that is agreeable to the Navy Department, but feels that anything that tends toward a naval reserve is primarily a function of the Navy Department itself.

The CHAIRMAN. We had that out, did we not, in a hearing before the Commerce Committee? Captain COPELAND. I think that was rather generally settled, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Yes. And we shall bear in mind your suggestions. Are there any other Government officials here? (No response.)

The CHAIRMAN. For the benefit of the committee, may I ask if there are any steamship men who are eager to testify in connection with this bill, at some future time—not today? Does anyone know of any steamship operators or others who wish to appear in that connection?

Mr. REGINALD G. NARELLE. Mr. Chairman, I shall file an appearance here for the Canal Carriers' Association of New York, who have an interest in this bill, operating from the North Atlantic to and from the Great Lakes.

Senator GIBSON. In other words, what is commonly known as the barge canal ?

Mr. NARELLE. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Would you care to testify at this time?
Mr. NARELLE. No, sir-but later.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there others who will testify at some time? Are there representatives of labor here?

Mr. MORTON BOROW. Mr. Chairman, some of the representatives are here now, but we have not had sufficient time to prepare our argument.

The CHAIRMAN. Whom do you represent?
Mr. Borow. The A. R. T. A.; that is, the radio officers.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, will you state when you will be able to be here?

Mr. Borow. I should like to ask this question, Mr. Chairman: How long will this committee meeting continue?

The CHAIRMAN. Well, long enough to hear those who will be interested. But, of course, we do not want these hearings to continue all winter.

do you represene radio officers ne able to be Mr. Borow. May I ask what was the normal contemplated time that you would give to us?

The CHAIRMAN. Could you testify within 10 days, say?
Mr. BOROW. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think that is true of other representatives of labor ?

Mr. Borow. Yes, sir—that is, giving us the full period of 10 days.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you talk with the clerk of the committee and see if you can agree upon a date? Mr. BOROW. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any others?

Mr. IRA L. EWERS. Mr. Chairman, my name is Ira L. Ewers, and I am an attorney. When these measures were introduced, they were submitted to a number of steamship companies who have an interest in this problem, some of whom are on the west coast, but from whom we have not heard as to whether or not they will desire to attend.

So I am unable to say whether they will or will not desire to testify. The understanding we obtained was that the hearings would be continued for witnesses other than Government witnesses about December 13. Before that time, undoubtedly we shall be informed as to whether any of those people desire to testify.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well; if you will keep in touch with us, then we shall try to agree upon a time.

Does anyone else care to speak? (No response.)

The CHAIRMAN. Then, I am very much obliged to you; and that will be all this morning, unless the members of the committee have anything to say.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well; then we shall adjourn at this time.

(Whereupon, at 11:45 a. m. an adjournment was taken, subject to call.)

COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE

ROYAL S. COPELAND, New York, Chairman MORRIS SHEPPARD, Texas

CHARLES L. McNARY, Oregon JOSIAH WILLIAM BAILEY, North Carolina HIRAM W. JOHNSON, California HATTIE W. CARAWAY, Arkansas

GERALD P. NYE, North Dakota BENNETT CHAMP CLARK, Missouri

ARTHUR H. VANDENBERG, Michigan JOHN H. OVERTON, Louisiana

WALLACE H. WHITE, JR., Maine
THEODORE G. BILBO, Mississippi

ERNEST W. GIBSON, Vermont
VIC DONAHEY, Ohio
JOSEPH F. GUFFEY, Pennsylvania
FRANCIS T. MALONEY, Connecticut
GEORGE L. RADCLIFFE, Maryland
CLAUDE PEPPER, Florida
JOSH LEE, Oklahoma
GEORGE L. BERRY, Tennessee

GRACE MCELDOWNEY, Clerk
ROGER WILLIAMSON, Assistant Clerk

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR

ELBERT D. THOMAS, Utah, Chair man ROYAL S. COPELAND, New York

WILLIAM E. BORAH, Idaho DAVID I. WALSH, Massachusetts

ROBERT M. LA FOLLETTE, JR., Wisconsin JAMES E. MURRAY, Montana

JAMES J. DAVIS, Pennsylvania
VIC DONAHEY, Ohio
RUSH D. HOLT, West Virginia
CLAUDE PEPPER, Florida
ALLEN J. ELLENDER, Louisiana
JOSH LEE, Oklahoma
DIXIE BIBB GRAVES, Alabama

EARL WIXcey, Clerk
KENNETH C. ROBERTSON, Assistant Clerk

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