The CHAIRMAN. I observe that the general recommendations followed the recommendations of our committee here?

Commander VICKERY. Yes, sir; that is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. When you speak of the cost on a particular ship, does that mean that with that money expended they would actually meet the recommendations which are included in this summary?

Commander VICKERY. Practically all of them, as far as reasonable. We have a detailed report on each particular ship, and on existing ships it is sometimes difficult to get by. For instance, we have a definite size of locker that we have adopted as a standard locker. Where ships already have lockers near those standards, we accept them.

The CHAIRMAN. You use the rule of common sense?

Commander VICKERY. Yes, sir. In an existing ship it is more difficult to put all of the regulations into effect than on new ships. The CHAIRMAN. How far along are you now?

Commander VICKERY. We have completed the surveys on all the subsidized and all the mortgaged ships and our own ships, all that the Maritime Commission has jurisdiction. We are checking up as to how far the work has actually been done on these ships. All of the Government-owned ships, which are 36 in number, have been completed. There are several others that have been completed, but we have not the complete list.

Senator MALONEY. I am very much interested in what is proposed to be done and what the standard should be; but we are confronted with a serious and, seemingly, almost impossible task of correcting conditions in the maritime field. We are told that the conditions came about as a result of disorderly unions, perhaps. I would like to know what conditions were found on board these ships, whether the men were compelled to sleep without ventilation, whether their quarters were crowded and insufficient in every direction, whether or not the men had proper food, whether or not there were any social opportunities for the men on board, such as reading and radio, or whether they all lived as serfs live.

Commander VICKERY. If you will let me read one or two of these reports, I think they will give you the information which you seek. Have you any particular line in mind?

Senator MALONEY. No. What I am trying to find out is whether or not this survey that you have prepared might be expected to bring about some correction of the conditions among the men. I would like to know to what extent the ship conditions caused this trouble.

Commander VICKERY. This memorandum relates to the steamship Executive, of the American Export Line. I have just picked it at random. The S. S. Executive of the American Export Line, was built in August 1920, as a freighter, at Hog Island, by the American International Shipbuilding Corporation. Length, 390 feet B. P.; beam, 54 feet; gross tonnage, 5,109.

She carries 12 passengers and a crew of about 37 men. [Reading:] The original deck officers' quarters in forward amidship house on bridge deck have been converted into passenger accommodations for 12 persons, and the officers have been moved into port side of after amidship house.

The licensed and unlicensed personnel are now berthed as shown on plan. While the accommodations generally are fairly well arranged and provide ample floor area, it should be noted that the removal of deck officers from original quarters tends to mix further, rather than segregate, the licensed and unlicensed

personnel. This, in our opinion, expecially under existing labor conditions, is not conducive to the welfare, morale, and discipline of the crew as a whole.

The crew mess room is very well arranged and fitted with three four-seat tables and one three-seat table, an electric refrigerator, sink, dish racks, coffee urns, and fans. It is also used as a recreation room.

The quarters are ventilated by a mushroom vent in the deck over each space. The floor in the deck officers' toilet and in the sailors' and firemen's toilet is not tiled.

During inspection it was noted that boiler casing in alleyway was very hot and not insulated.

RECOMMENDATIONS

Bathrooms and toilets (crew).-One additional wash basin should be fitted in firemen's bathrooms and two additional basins should be fitted in seamen's bathrooms.

One urinal should be fitted in each space.

Sheet-metal bulkheads of shower stalls are corroded through and dangerous. They should be repaired or renewed.

Missing toilet seats should be replaced.

Bathrooms and toilets should be scaled and painted.

As the spaces are small, their general appearance could be greatly improved at a comparatively small cost by tiling floors. This should also be done in the deck

officers' bathroom.

Soap receptacles should be fitted in showers and in way of basins.

The CHAIRMAN. All of these things indicate that there were defects that needed to be overcome?

Commander VICKERY. Yes, sir. [Reading further:]

ROOM EQUIPMENT

Berth lights. The existing berth lights in the after quarters are more or less makeshift. It is recommended that a 15-watt shaded light be permanently installed in way of each berth and controlled by individual switch on the fixture. Lockers.-The existing lockers are too small to hang clothes. It is recommended that a 12" by 21" x 72" locker for each person be installed.

Mattresses. When replacements are necessary, consideration should be given to a better grade of mattress. U. S. Navy specification No. 27-M-8a is suggested

as suitable for use of crew.

Mirrors. Each room should be fitted with a 12" x 16" mirror with brush and comb racks.

Similar mirrors should be fitted over wash basins in bathrooms.

Tables. Each room should be fitted with a portable or drop leaf table.

Benches. Where space permits, a fixed slatted settee should be fitted in each room in lieu of existing portable benches.

Fans. A 12" oscillating fan should be fitted in rooms not so equipped, and two 12'' fans fitted in mess rooms.

Wind scoops.-Wind scoops should be replaced where missing, providing at least one scoop per room.

Screens.-Port screens should be replaced where missing.

Lifebelts. Slatted storage racks should be fitted overhead for stowage of life belts.

Other equipment. Stowage racks should be fitted for port screens and wind scoops. Hat and coat hook should be fitted for each person in each living room and for each fixture in bathrooms.

INSULATION

It is recommended that ship's side in living quarters be covered with sprayed asbestos with protective finish, or sheathed.

Boiler casing in way of alleyways should be insulated on the inside with at least 1'' of slab asbestos or other suitable insulating material.

VENTILATION

It is recommended that a 15'' exhaust vent be fitted at forward end of port and starboard alleyway.

An exhaust blower should be fitted in each of the toilets under poop to discharge through goosenecks on poop deck and should be of sufficient capacity to give

twenty air changes per hour.

bathroom door.

Louvers should be fitted to bottom panel of each Louvers should be fitted in bottom panel of doors to bathrooms in midship house.

The CHAIRMAN. There is a good deal of detail there; but can you tell us about some of the "rotten" ships, where the conditions were terrible, where the men would have unquestionably a just ground for complaint?

Commander VICKERY. Senator, I do not believe that we have found a ship that was so bad that I would call it "rotten." I inspected a number of the ships personally. The present thought is not to berth as many men in the space as was formerly the practice. There has not been sufficient thought put on the rearrangement of the quarters. But they have not been such conditions as would merit the term "terrible living conditions" on board ship. Take the Navy ships. The Government berths far more men in a compartment than any merchant ship berths in one compartment. That is not a requisite of sanitation. The quarters can be kept clean whether you berth 4 men or whether you berth 20 men in the space. Personally, I believe in a smaller number in a space. But the cost of the rearrangement on these ships shows that the conditions were not terrible on those ships. As I say, the highest cost on any was $23,000, which is necessitated by rearranging the quarters and taking out rooms in one place and building new rooms in another, giving a better distribution of the crew.

On some of the ships that I inspected there were things that, while they were not terrible, I did not think should go along. For instance, there are washing compartments with toilets in the same compartments, with no surrounding bulkheads around the toilet and no doors. That does not lead to privacy. I saw that on one ship.

The CHAIRMAN. How do our conditions as they were compare with those of foreign ships?

Commander VICKERY. There is a much higher percentage of new ships, and thought has changed considerably in the last 20 years. On the new ships the new arrangements are better than our arrangements, because 20 years ago everybody berthed the crew forward, down in the forecastle ahead. Today we put them in the house amidships to get them up above the weather decks if possible. For that reason it is difficult to get an improved arrangement on the older ship. But the conditions on board are not any worse then they are in any of the other ships of foreign nations.

The first ships that I ever saw that were divided into small rooms with four in a room were some Russian ships that were being constructed in Germany. They had only four people in a room. That was the first time I had ever seen that done. That was done for political reasons, I believe.

Senator GIBSON. You are recommending the berthing of four? Commander VICKERY. Three is better. I would divide them by watches, so that when you wake a room you only wake the watch. Senator GIBSON. I have been shown sleeping quarters on the Washington where there were 30.

Commander VICKERY. That is correct. On the ships of the Virginia and California class there are 27 in a room. But they are rearranging those quarters to break them up. In the stewards' department on the large passenger ships it is most difficult because there are so many-such a large number of stewards. The contem

plated law I believe provides for six in a room on large passenger ships. On the new design for the new United States liner we are conforming with the proposed law, and it is very difficult to get it all in on large ships, but I believe we can do it.

The present law contemplates 20 square feet of superficial area per man. That is the minimum. I believe that 30 feet is a better figure, and when we can get 40 we get 40. On the new cargo vessel that is being designed we get 40 square feet to the man. There has been some thought of trying to use a hinged bunk so we hinge the bunks up in order to get more space and give the men more room in the space. I have talked that over with labor unions and they are not entirely sold on the idea.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean, similar to the berths on a Pullman car? Commander VICKERY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The law has certain provisions as to food. Have you had any occasion to look into the food situation?

Commander VICKERY. That does not come under my supervision. I know that it was looked into by the Commission and was inspected by Commissioner Woodward and people from the Labor Department, Mr. Ring and Mr. King. They went around and inspected and sampled the food on various ships.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Maloney, will you follow up the questioning?

Senator MALONEY. I do not think I have any other questions, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Let us get a full record on the matter. You will find the law very definitely sets forth the food and the menus. Admiral Hamlet's committee has gone over it, and under the new law they will have better food, I assume.

Commander VICKERY. Mr. Ring has just called to my attention the fact that the Norwegian Government has put out new regulations on board ships, and the Commission is analyzing them to find out just what they mean by the standards.

Senator GIBSON. I think you will agree that satisfied personnel is a necessary prerequisite in the building up of our merchant marine? Commander VICKERY. I agree thoroughly with you. When we take away from them any ground of complaint, so that there is no complaint about conditions in which they have to live, then I believe the problem is entirely a personnel matter after that.

Senator GIBSON. And you feel that your recommendations thoroughly take care of the situation?

Commander VICKERY. Yes; I think they do.

The CHAIRMAN. I think there is a very pertinent statement in the report of the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee in the Board of Trade Instructions, of England. Naturally the new instructions will result in the provision of a much better class of accommodation, in particular in new ships designed by the mutual cooperation of officers and crews. The statement says [reading]:

In our opinion it cannot be too strongly emphasized that the master should make it his business, and should receive express instructions to that effect from his owners, to take a personal interest in all questions relating to the accommodation of his crew and should make a regular and frequent inspection of the crew's quarters.

That is required under our laws, and we have heard this morning from the witnesses how difficult it is to get efficient results from these inspections.

Commander VICKERY. I have some prints of our new arrangement of the crew's quarters in our new cargo vessel which I will submit if you care to have them. They show the layout of the crew's quarters and the officers' quarters.

The CHAIRMAN. We read in the papers that we are going to have a great merchant fleet.

Commander VICKERY. I hope so, sir. I think conditions have reached the farthest swing of the pendulum, and I think the Algic case was a case in point, and they are looking into things that should be done.

The CHAIRMAN. Admiral Hamlet points out the proposed new scale of foods. He was good enough to talk to me about that. I might know something about it, but not much.

Now, Commander, all the time we are hearing criticisms that the sailors are treated like dogs and that they live like animals. Is there any foundation for that?

Commander VICKERY. I think that their living conditions on board ship are not like dogs' quarters. The truth is that the men themselves will not clean and keep their quarters in shape. A man should take a certain amount of personal pride in his own quarters. There has been a lot of complaint that I have heard among operators, as they come through the Commission, about various things. They have complained that when they put good gear and high-class stuff on board ship the men have not appreciated it. That is not a true statement as to all crews. There are crews with whom they do not have any difficulty; and I do not think they live like dogs. The conditions on the Standard Oil ships are quite luxurious, and the conditions under which the men live are far better than the conditions that I had when I first went to sea as an officer. They are not as crowded as my room was and not as crowded as many of the modern ships coming out. They have far more room per man on merchant ships today than on our warships, and much better conditions than I had when I first went to sea, on some of the older ships; but I never considered that I was living like a dog.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any occasion to know anything about the living quarters on nonsubsidized ships?

Commander VICKERY. No, sir; I do not, except the Standard Oil ships and the oil tankers. We have been interested in tankers recently, so I have inspected quite a lot of them. The Commission sold a number of ships to be made into colliers for the domestic trade, recently, from the laid-up fleet, and we specified in the contract of sale that a rearrangement of the quarters would have to be made satisfactory to the Maritime Commission, so that we would hold jurisdiction over them. We have had plans sent to us and we have gone over them and made them meet the standards which we have set up for ships which are subsidized. Their quarters are very satisfactory. The Mystic Steamship Co. is one of them. Those quarters are kept in the same condition and are built to the same specifications that we are insisting upon.

Those conditions are not bad. I know that the living conditions in the proposed new Savannah Line boats will meet the new standards