severe punishment for violation of rules, similar to the type of discipline and the code that has made our Navy as efficient as it, is today. There, and only there, lies the solution of our safety problem. The demand of the crew for overtime pay has led to constant bickering, resulting in the inhibition of exercise of judgment and orders at critical times by the master and officers. I quote in demonstration the case of a quartermaster on duty who refused to clean the wheelhouse windows on the bridge on a Sunday unless he was paid. overtime. When it was pointed out to him that it was for his own safety as well as for that of the ship, he admitted that fact, but demanded overtime in order to protect himself in case of trial by the ship's soviet or the union hall committee ashore. This is not a question of rate of pay, but the question is: Is the master of a ship going to be obliged to bicker with his men when the safety of the ship is concerned, or is he as of yore, going to be permitted to order the necessary work done? Senator THOMAS of Utah. You used the word "soviet." Is that the formal organization at this time? Captain - The three-delegate system represents the engineroom department, the steward's department, and the deck department which is the same as the soviet. There is no difference in my mind, anyway. In another instance, while I was an officer of a large Atlantic liner, a fire of serious possibilities had to be extinguished by a few officers on a Sunday evening at sea, because the union insists upon the watch on deck remaining below in their quarters on Saturday afternoons and Sundays, which really means that they are asleep. Yet I am charged strictly to maintain a watch on deck at all times when under way. It should be borne in mind that the sea is relentless. Its dangers are present at those times as well as any other. Disaster has no respect for Saturday afternoons or Sundays. To relax the necessary vigilance for but a moment is to invite this disaster. A ship cannot be treated as an industrial unit or a factory that is able to shut down its operation at will and thus eliminate most of its pertinent dangers. This difference-labor looking at a ship as being comparable to a factory, and the owners and officers looking at a ship as being constantly subject to the dangers of the sea, in no sense comparable to a factory-has been the cause of much chaos in the safe operation of our ships. With these facts in mind, the charges I have made and the peculiar nature of a seagoing ship, I should like to have this committee consider my proposed solution of the personnel problem. To my mind. it is quite simple. One solution offered, and I think it is the best one, is to put the entire merchant marine personnel under a division of the Coast Guard, with enlistment, retirement, and other benefits. This would insure the discipline necessary to the safety of passengers at sea. The training of seamen should also be undertaken by this agency, thus affording the youth of the United States an opportunity, particularly in inland States, to contemplate the sea as a livelihood and not restricting enlistment to those subjected to the questionable influences of the water fronts of our large cities, where our present new blood appears to originate. If this is not feasible, then there should be enacted at least three most important laws. The first should require an oath of loyalty to the Constitution of the United States and strict observance of the navigation laws. The second should impose a severe punishment for drunkenness for a drunken seaman aboard ship should be placed in the same category as a drunken automobile driver. The third should inflict a severe penalty on anyone attempting undue familiarity with passengers, furnishing at the same time a simple and speedy method of trial. The existence of these three laws alone would do much to better conditions on our ships. The CHAIRMAN. Do you notice more difficulty since the repeal of the eighteenth amendment than there was before? Captain to you, gentlemen. . Yes; I do. Very much so. I will state that later In conclusion, I wish to state that I am making this statement not only as an alarmed ship master, but also as an outraged citizen. I appeal to you to aid those on whom the law has imposed a heavy responsibility, and to keep our ships safe. If you do not, our merchant marine is doomed, for no industry, whether aided by a government or not, can survive the tactics which I have described. Personally, I would prefer to have our ships withdrawn from the sea, even at the expense of losing my livelihood, than to have them run as they are running now. I am an adherent to the principle that if a thing must be done, it must be done well or not at all. I should like to add that where I have given specific examples of men's incompetency and disrespect for authority and the taking of unwarranted liberties with passengers I can supply names, times, and places, and I have evidence in a majority of the cases to substantiate all my charges, which evidence I will be very glad to submit if you so desire. As to cases where I do not have substantiating evidence, I can testify that the facts are true of my own knowledge. So as to impress upon this committee the fact that these charges are capable of substantiation, I have brought with me proof of six typical cases, which are undisputed. I will show them to you gentlemen if you wish to see them. One is the case of a ship's policeman getting drunk and annoying a woman passenger, and assault and battery. Another one is a paper describing drunkenness. The third is a paper pertaining to the gambling in our ships. The fourth gives various reasons for dismissing men from ships. The fifth is a newspaper that I have brought with me which is published by the union, and it indicates the psychology very nicely. The sixth is a pamphlet which I have which demonstrates the communistic literature. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Thomas, have you any questions to ask? Senator THOMAS of Utah. With reference to such men as you have described, do you think that the oath of allegiance to the Constitution of the United States would mean anything to such men? Captain Would it not eliminate the question of communistic literature? This advocates overthrow of the Government; and certainly if you make a man take an oath that he must observe the navigation laws, that must mean something. Senator THOMAS of Utah. Do you think that the oath of allegiance would mean anything to them? Captain It is as far as you can go. Senator THOMAS of Utah. If they are actually attempting to overthrow the Government, they would take such an oath with a reservation, would they not? Captain I do not know. The CHAIRMAN. A mental reservation. Captain If a person takes an oath it is something that he should regard as sacred. My idea is to get rid of the Communists. The CHAIRMAN. What is that pamphlet which you have there? One of my good men picked it up and gave it to Captain me. I cannot reveal his name, because they would kill him. The CHAIRMAN. Did he indicate that it had been generally distributed? Captain Yes, of course. They give these pamphlets out to convert them. He brought this one to me and showed it to me. The CHAIRMAN. You mean, to convert them to communism? Captain Yes, sir. That is, I think, the object; and if you will read this pamphlet you will see in there that they are advocating the overthrow of the Government-a revolution-and, of course, they want to take the ships over. The author of it is a member of the union, one of the "big shots." If they knew that the boy had given this to me they would kill him; and just as likely as not I am liable to have a bullet in my back if they find out I am down here. But I will take that chance, because something has got to be done or we will have a big disaster some time. Senator THOMAS of Utah. Is it your conception that ultimately, if the present bill should become a law, the Coast Guard will have retirement privileges, and so on, and it will mean the recruiting of a different type of man, a different sort of individual? Captain Yes. It would do this: it would bring to the front the boys that want to go to sea, and it would eliminate all this type of men that I have been speaking about. Senator THOMAS of Utah. Do you think we have the necessary personnel in America? Captain Oh, certainly; but I think they are more likely to be found in the Middle West. You do not have a chance to get in unless you go to these unions, and if they like your looks you might get in. That means an outsider cannot come in and go to sea at all. But this means that the Coast Guard will take these boys and put them through the proper training and not inculcate into them communism and all that sort of rubbish. They will have the proper ideals. Boys do not want to go to sea out of a nice home and have this sort of thing go on. They get discouraged and leave. The CHAIRMAN. Why do you suggest the Coast Guard instead of the Navy? Captain The Navy is too military. Even the Coast Guard, while it is military also, you naturally have a great deal of respect for it. First, it is a little bit removed from the Navy and it has more in common with the merchant service than the Navy has. Not that I am trying to discredit the Navy, but the Navy is a different thing from the merchant service and a naval ship is a different thing from a merchant ship. The CHAIRMAN. If we built up a great Naval Reserve could men be recruited from that? Captain I prefer to have it as I have suggested. When a man goes through naval training he is not pliant enough. The merchant marine is a harder task, you might say. Even if you should use the Coast Guard for training, I think you should inject a few merchant officers into the Coast Guard to see that they have the proper concept. It has to be mixed. The Coast Guard, as I see it, is a nearer thing to our problem than the Navy. The Navy, as you know, has only one end, and that is efficiency in battle, which is something that we do not need in the merchant service. But the Coast Guard has the right spirit. It does a more merchant type of work, like rescues, and one thing or another. I think that is the best agency in which to place this matter. As a matter of fact, I did not really say the Coast Guard; I said, a division of the Coast Guard. My idea is to put it under the Coast Guard, in a separate division. It does not even have to be as military as the Coast Guard. Senator THOMAS of Utah. Has the Coast Guard now the proper training facilities? Captain Not quite; no. Senator THOMAS of Utah. It would have to be expanded? - Yes. The CHAIRMAN. An officer of the Coast Guard came to see me the other day and outlined what they were prepared to do in the way of revising their curriculum with reference to this particular training; and it is quite interesting to observe that the idea that the captain has put forward is almost like the idea of the officer to whom I refer. He spoke of wide experience in the merchant marine to assist in the training of these men in the Coast Guard. One of the provisions of the bill which is before us, Captain, is a proposal to have the training of sailors in the Coast Guard, as you have suggested. Senator MALONEY. Captain, I have not the slightest doubt as to the conditions which you have described and the kind of men we have on ships that are contributing most to the chaos; but do you not think that conditions would be greatly improved if the living conditions, the social conditions, and the sanitary conditions on board our merchant ships were improved? Captain Here is the point, Senator. A ship is not a hotel. There is not enough room. We have improved them, Senator. The fact is they have had it all their own way the last 2 years. We have done everything we could, and things are not any different at all. If we let the men alone they would not lift their little fingers to clean up. In one instance I told a messman to clean up a place, which is his job, and he was fined for painting up a little bit of rust. One man was fined $4 for telling him how to do it, through my orders, and the other man was fined $2 for doing it. It was all because I insisted that this little dirty rust spot should be touched up. The reason they were fined was because these men did not go to the delegate, first, to ask his approval. A man, no matter who he is, should have enough decency to keep his own place clean. But these men will not lift their fingers. They turn in on clean linen with "boots and saddles." All we do is clean quarters. We have I don't know how many messmen to clean up after them; but they will not do it of their own accord. My idea is to have a law to make every man responsible for the cleanliness of his own place. I make a rigid inspection every morning; and do you know, they have booed me for making an inspection? Why, I don't know. I can't understand their psychology, because it is for their own benefit, as I told them. The food has been vastly improved. They have had things their own way for the last 2 years. They are given almost anything they Senator MALONEY. Do you think the quarters are suitable and satisfactory? Captain These ships are old, Senator. Unless you take the ship apart and rebuild it, you cannot do much with it. The quarters might not be so roomy, but you can keep them clean. They are not any different from those on a destroyer. You have bunks three-high there, but the quarters are clean. On a submarine you do not have as much space as on a merchant ship. We give them everything they want. Senator MALONEY. Do you maintain that that is a general picture of the situation? Captain Yes, of course. They come in and throw their dirty clothes all over the place, instead of hanging them up Senator MALONEY (interposing). Yes; I understand that. But my question is directed to the operators or owners of the ships. I do not question what you say about the men. Captain I will admit that there are abuses; there is no question about that, because nothing is perfect. But I get tired of trying to keep the place clean and giving them good things and see them ruined. They don't care; that is all. You can do everything to keep the place clean for them, but when you come back 5 minutes later it is the same as it always is. Senator MALONEY. Do you think there is sufficient incentive on these ships by way of sanitary and social conditions to make it all right for the men if they keep the quarters properly themselves? Captain - Yes; it is up to the men themselves. If they don't keep things clean we can't stand over them every 5 minutes; and neither can the owner. I will give you an instance. On a given ship they were complaining about the stoppers in the washbowls being taken away. We put them in and put nice chains on them so they would not get lost. They just tore the chains out and used them for watch chains. I came down the next day and all the stoppers were gone. Senator MALONEY. Is the pay generally sufficient? Yes. It is $72 a month, and everything "found." That is a good rate of pay for the job of work they do, and as little as they do, with everything "found" and overtime with it. It exceeds the pay of the average man on the street who has to support himself on about $75 a month. Senator MALONEY. I have had the feeling that you have expressed here, to some extent, that we could recruit a fine type of young men from such sources as the C. C. C. camps, but I wondered if we were offering them what was proper and sufficient by way of conditions and so forth. Captain You know, you have to put up with some things on a ship. There is no question about it. If you go back to the time when I went to sea, I went to sea after I left the training ship, on a sailing ship, at $15 a month, working 4 and 4. You have to make it just a little hard. I mean, you have got to weed out the men, and if a person can't put up with some discomfort he is no good at sea, because the time will come when you are going to suffer at sea, whether you are a captain or a mess boy. If you are not going to put up with something you are not fit for the job. Some of these old ships, of course, were built 30 years ago. |