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Senator MALONEY. Have you any idea of how many ships that line has?

Commissioner DALY. I believe they have 10 vessels.

Senator GIBSON. That is the contract that Curran testified was very advantageous to the union.

The CHAIRMAN. You may recall that I placed in the record a letter from a man named Daniel B. Irwin. That was on the Black Diamond

Line.

According to the testimony of the C. I. O. witness, after the contract was signed and in force, this new arrangement, he said, was satisfactory.

Senator GIBSON. That is my understanding of the situation.

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to read to you the law about hiring men. This is from 46 United States Code 545:

Shipping officers: The general duties of a shipping commissioner shall be:

First. To afford facilities for engaging seamen by keeping a register of their names and characters.

Second. To superintend their engagement and discharge in manner prescribed by law.

Third. To provide means for securing the presence on board at the proper times of men who are so engaged.

Fourth. To facilitate the making of apprenticeships to the sea service.

Fifth. To perform such other duties relating to merchant seamen or merchant ships as are now or may hereafter be required by law.

Commissioner Daly, are you carrying out this provision of the law? Commissioner DALY. In entirety, sir; everything that is down as our duties is carried out.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you engage seamen?

Commissioner DALY. No, we keep a register of seamen who are looking for jobs in our shipping service.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you superintend their engagement and discharge?

Commissioner DALY. Only so far as the articles are concerned. The CHAIRMAN. Are you providing means for securing their presence on board?

Commissioner DALY. By placing on the articles the time that the man has got to join ship.

The CHAIRMAN. What are you doing about the making of apprenticeships?

Commissioner DALY. Absolutely nothing.

The CHAIRMAN. Why not?

Commissioner DALY. The cadets are the only apprentices we are hiring at the present time, and they are being hired through the companies.

Commander FIELD. But is it not a fact that there are no apprenticeships now?

Commissioner DALY. Only the cadets.

The CHAIRMAN. Can a graduate of one of the merchant marine schools get a job aboard ship?

Commissioner DALY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. How does he get it?

Commissioner DALY. Do you mean a man who is graduated from a schoolship?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Commissioner DALY. He gets it from the company.

The CHAIRMAN. He first joins the union? Commissioner DALY. Yes; if he is going as an able seaman or fireman. The CHAIRMAN. If he does not join the union, can he get a job? Commissioner DALY. No, unless he is a licensed officer; then he belongs to the licensed men's organization.

The CHAIRMAN. You were talking about the subversive influences, Commissioner. Have you seen evidence of subversive influences? Commissioner DALY. Well, I will tell you. Every ship carries three delegates-one in the deck department, one in the engine department, and one in the steward's department. Those delegates may be experienced men or they may be men who have had only 6 to 12 months at sea.

The CHAIRMAN. You say they are delegates. Do you mean delegates of the union?

Commissioner DALY. Of the N. M. U.

The CHAIRMAN. They are chosen by the union?
Commissioner DALY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. They are chosen not at all with reference to their service?

Commissioner DALY. No; they are chosen to be delegates aboard. ship, to keep the men in line with union policies, to check up from time to time, to help them in case they have any trouble with anybody, and to represent them before the masters.

Senator MALONEY. What else do they do aboard ship?
Commissioner DALY. Oh, they work aboard ship.

Senator MALONEY. As members of the crew?

Commissioner DALY. As members of the crew, maybe as firemen, water tenders, oiler, able seamen, or quartermasters. In some cases they are put aboard by the union; in other cases they are elected by the crew when the crew is assembled aboard ship.

Senator VANDENBERG. Do they assume to have any authority superior to that of the captain?

Commissioner DALY. Well, it is only just the authority they get through being delegates.

Senator VANDENBERG. What does that include?

Commissioner DALY. It just means that some of them are drunk with power and assume that authority.

Senator DONAHEY. They do have control over the men or the crew?

Commissioner DALY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What does the captain do now? Does he just give in to those delegates?

Commissioner DALY. Well, some of the matters that come before him may be treated on a common-sense basis, and some of them may involve a violation of law. He reports in his log book if anything happens through their interference, but there is nothing that he can do about it; there is absolutely nothing that he can do about it except to order the men to go back to their work under the conditions named in the articles.

Commander FIELD. I do not know much about it, myself, but I have heard a good deal lately about union officials-perhaps these delegates trying members of the crew for matters which have come up in the performance of their duties on board ship. I have heard

that when a man breaks some union rule a court made up of the crewrepresentatives of the union-will try him in ship for breaking the union rules or possibly for some other matter which should have come under the captain's jurisdiction.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they sometimes try the captain?
Commander FIELD. I have not heard of that.

The CHAIRMAN. You have heard of no case where they tried the captain?

Commander FIELD. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you, Commissioner?

Commissioner DALY. Yes; I have, but I sifted that case down in the port of New York for weeks, but I could never find the origin. The CHAIRMAN. Does not the captain know whether or not he was tried?

Commissioner DALY. We could never find the captain or trace the name of the ship.

Senator MALONEY. I am very sorry, Mr. Chairman, that I could not be present at the previous hearing, but I was in attendance at the hearings on the Housing Bill, so I wonder if I may ask the commander for some information.

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly.

Senator MALONEY. Commander Field, if I may ask, what was your position before you took over your present assignment?

sir.

Commander FIELD. I just came from the active list of the Navy,

The CHAIRMAN. Commissioner Daly, you spoke about the evil, or the effect I should say, of the hiring hall upon your work and upon the discipline aboard ship. What did you mean by that?

Commissioner DALY. Well, Senator, for 18 years I was the local manager and shipping master of the ship service of the old Sea Service Bureau.

The CHAIRMAN. Under Mayor Kline?

Commissioner DALY. Under Mayor Kline. I had formerly worked for the old Morgan Line and was chosen as the man in New York to organize that bureau there. We had cases of infractions of discipline, but the men were always under control. The man that was commissioner before me for possibly 12 years never did have a major case. I have now been commissioner for two years and a half, but I have conducted well over 250 cases.

Senator VANDENBERG. What do you mean by a major case?

Commissioner DALY. Well, nothing that was in any way mutinous; not the "President" cases.

Senator MALONEY. Do you mean that you have had 250 mutinous cases?

Commissioner DALY. No, minor cases.

Senator GIBSON. Not mutinous cases?

Commissioner DALY. We had a case on the California, but it never reached the mutinous stage. That was handled through the United States attorney. It was never pronounced a mutinous case.

The CHAIRMAN. Commissioner, is it not true that, as far as you know, the unions have demanded that all unlicensed personnel should be hired exclusively through the union hiring halls?

Commissioner DALY. Yes, sir.

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The CHAIRMAN. The objections to that, I take it, are that the experienced and local employees, because of the rotating system, would be displaced?

Commissioner DALY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That is one objection?
Commissioner DALY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, everybody has to join the union?
Commissioner DALY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The company must consent to the discharge at once of any or all employees not joining or being members of the union?

Commissioner DALY. The delegation won't allow the ship to sail. If there is a man aboard who is not a union member, they won't permit the ship to be moved.

The CHAIRMAN. We shall place in the record at this point a statement issued by the United States Lines Co. under date of December 22, 1937, entitled, "An important message to the men who man our ships.' It points out from the owner's standpoint the evils of the hiring hall.

(The document referred to by the chairman is to be inserted in the record at this point.)

AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE TO THE MEN WHO MAN OUR SHIPS
United States Lines Company, One Broadway, New York, N. Y.

FACTS CONCERNING THE CLOSED SHOP, THE UNION-OPERATED HIRING HALL, AND
THE ROTATING SYSTEM OF EMPLOYMENT

It is not true that negotiations between the United States Lines and the National Maritime Union over a contract covering wages and working conditions have been blocked by the company, as union officials say. It is true, however, that the company has rejected the union's demands that the company obtain all unlicensed personnel through the union hiring hall exclusively. This provision has been rejected because consent by the company would result in a closed shop and a rotating system of employment.

Not all of our employees seem to realize what a closed shop means, nor are they fully aware of how they will be affected by a rotating system of employment. Therefore, we say to the men who man our ships that if we agreed to the closed shop:

1. We would quickly lose our experienced and loyal employees, because of the expressed statement by the National Maritime Union that it planned to rotate seamen in the entire industry.

2. We would thereby become a party to compelling everyone of you to join the Union and to pay whatever dues it cared to assess upon you whether you wished to join and pay dues or not.

3. We would be practically consenting to the discharge at once of any or all of you who did not wish to join and pay dues to the union. This company has always refused to discharge any employee unless he or she proved unwilling or unable to do the work assigned to him or her.

4. We would also be forced to discharge at once any one of you who, though you wished to join the union might for some reason be considered unacceptable for membership by the union officials or who might be expelled justly or unjustly from the union.

Such discharge would be unfair to those of you who have proved yourselves faithful employees for many years.

5. We would, in short, have to turn the entire control of your job and your future over to a union which can change its representatives and which assumes no legal or other responsibility to you, to the Government, or to anybody else. The United States Lines has built up its reputation with the traveling public, not with monster ships or super speed ships, but by its fine accommodations, food and service to passengers, and to agree to a closed shop would very quickly

change our employees and destroy this reputation. The company desires to retain in its employ experienced employees in all departments.

In the Steward's Department, which is the department coming closely in contact with passengers, it feels that if it permitted a closed shop these employees would be sacrificed, if not immediately, in the very near future.

The company has approved a clause in the proposed contract giving union men preference. This is an evidence of its purpose not to destroy the union, but rather to cooperate with it, as the bargaining agent for its employees, to formulate a practical working agreement acceptable to both parties.

The very essence of the closed shop and the union operated hiring hall is abolition of the company's right of selection. This it cannot give up. It feels that if an outside agency is to determine who shall and shall not man our ships we will quickly lose our experienced and loyal employees who by reason of long and continuous service are the company's greatest asset.

From the standpoint of the average man employed on our ships the objection to a rotating system of employment is too clear to require an explanation.

What company in any field can expect to show a record of efficiency if at the very moment one man becomes experienced in his job the union takes him out of it and substitutes another? Constant change of personnel affects every business harmfully.

The company insists in this agreement that it must retain the right to continue in employment their employees when mutually agreeable, to transfer men from one ship to another and to promote men from one rating to another.

The rotating system of employment will benefit the man on the beach in detriment to the man who is and has been regularly employed on our ships. When you voted for the N. M. U. to represent you in negotiating a new contract with the company you naturally assumed they would represent you exclusively, and not the men on the beach who hope to replace you in your jobs at intervals through adoption of the rotating system of employment.

When the company refused to accept the closed shop and the union operated hiring hall with its inevitable rotating system of employees it had another thing in mind and that the most important of all considerations-the safety of its passengers. Manifestly, the more experienced the crew, the greater its familiarity with the vessel, the more continuous its service, the higher the safety factor.

Moreover, the company's management is directly responsible for the safety of passengers on its ships. It is unthinkable therefore that management should permit the leaders of a union to select a ship's personnel, rotate employees from time to time, possibly discriminate against the most experienced and desirable men and apportion to favorites, regardless of their experience or reliability, the most coveted remunerative and even responsible of jobs.

The United States Lines is willing and anxious to work in the closest harmony with any union which represents the men who man its ships and is interested in maintaining the best possible wages and working conditions under all circumstances. UNITED STATES LINES COMPANY.

DECEMBER 22, 1937—L 12735.

As

Commander FIELD. I wish to clear up a point, Mr. Chairman. I understand it, the displacement of the old employees aboard ship is not a question of whether they are members of the union or not. The CHAIRMAN. No; I understand that. There is a rotation. anyhow.

Commander FIELD. Yes, sir.

Senator VANDENBERG. I should like to comment a little further about the subversive influences that the Commissioner was discussing. Have you anything more specific on that?

Commissioner DALY. No; except just what I have observed from the cases that have come before me.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it your view that these men are Communists? Commissioner DALY. Well, that is very hard to say. There is a communistic tendency in the union; there is no question about it. But if I were asked to put my finger on it, I could not do it.

The CHAIRMAN. It would be hard to put your finger on any Communist, would it not?

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