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the provisions of subsection (c) of section 3679 of the Revised Statutes, as amended, whenever he deems such action to be necessary in the interest of national defense. * * *"

23. Small Business Administration-Salaries and Expenses : "* * * Provided, That 10 per centum of the amount authorized to be transferred from these revolving funds shall be apportioned for use, pursuant to section 3679 of the Revised Statutes, as amended, only in such amounts and at such times as may be necessary to carry out the [business and disaster loan programs]."

24. United States Information Agency-Salaries and Expenses : «* * * Provided further, That notwithstanding the provisions of section 3679 of the Revised Statutes, as amended (31 U.S.C. 665), the United States Information Agency is authorized, in making contracts for the use of international short-wave radio stations and facilities, to agree on behalf of the United States to indemnify the owners and operators of said radio stations and facilities from such funds as may be hereafter appropriated for the purpose against loss or damage on account of injury to persons or property arising from such use of said radio stations and facilities : ****

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1. Atomic Energy Commission—General Provisions : “Not to exceed 5 per centum of appropriations made available for the current fiscal year for ‘Operating expenses' and 'Plant and capital equipment may be transferred between such appropriations, but neither such appropriation, except as otherwise provided herein shall be increased by more than 5 per centum by any such transfers, and any such transfers shall be reported promptly to the Appropriations Committees of the House and Senate."

2. National Aeronautics and Space Administration General Provisions: “Not to exceed 5 per centum of any appropriation made available to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration by this Act may be transferred to any other such appropriation."

3. Department of Defense-General Provisions : “During the current fiscal year, the Secretary of Defense may, if he deems it vital to the security of the United States and in the national interest to further improve the readiness of the Armed Forces, including the reserve components, transfer under the authority and terms of the Emergency Fund an additional $200,000,000: Provided, That the transfer authority made available under the terms of the Emergency Fund appropriation contained in this Act is hereby broadened to meet the requirements of this section : Provided further, That the Secretary of Defense shall notify the Appropriations Committees of the Congress promptly of all transfers made pursuant to this authority.”

4. Department of Interior-General Provisions: "Appropriations made in this title shall be available for expenditure or transfer (within each bureau or office). with the approval of the Secretary, for the emergency reconstruction, replacement, or repair of aircraft, buildings, utilities, or other facilities or equipment damaged or destroyed by fire, flood, storm, or other unavoidable causes : Provided, That no funds shall be made available under this authority until funds specifically made available to the Department of the Interior for emergencies shall hare been exhausted."

“The Secretary may authorize the expenditure or transfer (within each bureau or office) of any appropriation in this title, in addition to the amounts included in the budget programs of the several agencies. for the suppression or emergency prevention of forest or range fires on or threatening lards under jurisdiction of the Department of the Interior: Provided, That appropriations made in this title for fire suppression purposes shall be available for the payment of obligations incurred during the preceding fiscal year, and for reimbursement to other Federal agencies for destruction of vehicles, aircraft or other equipment in connection with their use for fire suppression purposes, such reimbursement to be credited to appropriations currently available at the time of receipt thereof."

5. General Services Administration—General Provisions : "Not to exceed 2 per centum of any appropriation made available to the General Services Administration for the current fiscal year by this Act may be transferred to any other such appropriation, but no such appropriation shall be increased thereby more than 2 per centum: Prorided, That such transfers shall apply only to operating expenses, and shall not exceed in the aggregate the amount of $2,000,000.”

6. Veterans Administration-General Provisions : "Not to exceed 5 per centum of any appropriation for the current fiscal year for 'Compensation and pensions', "Readjustment benefits', and 'Veterans insurance and indemnities' may be transferred to any other of the mentioned appropriations, but not to exceed 10 per centum of the appropriations so augmented.”

7. Department of Agriculture Agricultural Research Service, Salaries and expenses : "* * * Provided further, That, in addition, in emergencies which threaten the livestock or poultry industries of the country, the Secretary may transfer from other appropriations or funds available to the agencies or corporations of the Department such sums as he may deem necessary, to be available only in such emergencies for the arrest and eradication of foot-and-mouth disease. rinderpest, contagious pleuropneumonia, or other contagious or infectious diseases of animals, or European fowl pest and similar diseases in poultry, and for expenses in accordance with the Act of February 28, 1947, as amended, and any imexpended balances of funds transferred under this head in the next preceding fiscal year shall be merged with such transferred amounts; * * *"

8. Department of Agriculture-Farmers Home Administration, Salaries and expenses : "* * * Provided, That, in addition, not to exceed $500,000 of the funds available for the various programs administered by this agency may be transferred to this appropriation for temporary field employment pursuant to the second sentence of section 706(a) of the Organic Act of 1914 (5 U.S.C. 574) to meet unusual or heavy workload increases : * * ***

9. Department of Commerce Ocean Shipping, Research and Development: "* * * Provided, That transfers may be made to the appropriation for the current fiscal year for "Salaries and expenses" for administrative expenses (not to exceed $900,000) and any such transfers shall be without regard to the limitation under that appropriation on the amount available for such expenses : Provided further, That transfers may be made from this appropriation to the "Vessel operations revolving fund” for losses resulting from expenses of experimental ship operations.

10. Department of Defense-Research, Development, Test, and Evaluation, Defense Agencies : "* * * Provided, That such amounts as may be determined by the Secretary of Defense to have been made available in other appropriations available to the Department of Defense during the current fiscal year for programs related to advanced research may be transferred to and merged with this appropriation to be available for the same purposes and time period : Provided further, That such amounts of this appropriation as may be determined by the Secretary of the Defense may be transferred to carry out the purposes of advanced research to those appropriations for military functions under the Department of Defense which are being utilized for related programs, to be merged with and to be available for the same time period as the appropriation to which transferred, *

11. Post Office Department: “* * * Provided, That functions financed by the appropriations available to the Post Office Department for the current fiscal year and the amounts appropriated therefor, may be transferred, in addition to the appropriation transfers otherwise authorized in this Act and with the approval of the Bureau of the Budget, between such appropriations to the extent necessary to improve administration and operations: * **"

12. General Services Administration : "** * Provided further, That the foregoing limits of costs may be exceeded to the extent that savings are effected in other projects, but by not to exceed 10 per centum. * * *"

Mr. ROGERS. My first reaction is negative to this. I am not impressed with the fact of turning it over to the Secretary, particularly when Congress is in session most of the year. There may be a period of 3 or 4 months when we are not.

Supplementals are available. I just don't see much need for contingency frnds as long as we have available the Congress to act on some specific requests.

Mr. COHEN. Could I say a little on that, Mr. Rogers?
Mr. ROGERS. Certainly.

Mr. COHEN. I know you are a man who can be persuaded by the facts. I would like to take a try at it.

* *

I think our experience, Mr. Rogers, has been, first, that such a fund is needed during the time that Congress is not in session. Even when Congress returns at the beginning of a calendar year to deal with supplementals, your study will find that supplementals in many cases for anything except, I think, of the greatest urgency, perhaps most largely national defense and other related problems come on the whole early in the spring rather than early in the year. There is a period of time, I would say, ranging from 6 to 7 months, rather than just from 2 to 3 months, in which it is almost impossible for the Department to act in an emergency.

Secondly, even with regard to a request for a supplemental at a given moment of time, our experience has been that, unless there is a supplemental already on its way through Congress, it is exceedingly difficult, even with the gravest type of problems we have, to get the supplemental considered on its own merits because usually the House or the Senate committee wants to group supplementals together, which is a very understandable desire.

We have reluctantly come to the conclusion that the present process really does make it very difficult for us to exploit any of the research breakthroughs or deal with any of these emergencies very promptly.

Mr. ČARTER. Mr. Chairman, would the gentleman from Florida yield?

Mr. ROGERS. I yield.

Mr. CARTER. Suppose at the present time we did have this breakthrough on german measles and a vaccine was developed. I can see how the Surgeon General would want some funds immediately to take advantage of this. Certainly, I think that a fund is necessary.

We know that otherwise we have to have a supplemental appropriation that will take months. By reason of this, we have, perhaps, hundreds of deformed babies throughout the United States whose mothers had not had the opportunity of this vaccination.

Mr. ROGERS. I appreciate the comment of the gentleman. It has been my experience certainly that, rather than having to wait on moneys, we generally have to push to get new drugs approved and no vaccine.

In polio it was at the instigation of this committee. We had to push our people to get them to do anything, particularly on the safety devices. I remember very well our hearings on the problem that we had on getting new drugs pushed.

I would think that Congress could keep up pretty well if the breakthroughs come about if we are alert at all to our jobs.

Mr. KELLY. Mr. Rogers, could I comment?
Mr. ROGERS. Yes.

Mr. KELLY. I think that we should bring to your attention the fact that the funds appropriated to HEW are in some ninety accounts. This does give the Congress the opportunity to review each individual program and determine the level of funding, but the more refined you make the individual account the less flexibility you provide for dealing with unforeseen conditions.

Mr. ROGERS. Let me ask you this: I understand that you are talking about measles. We know there is a possibility of this developing.

What is the request of the Department on the vaccination program?

Are you coming in with a new program or are you letting it
Dr. STEWART. Are you talking about German measles?
Mr. ROGERS. A vaccination program is what I am talking about.

Dr. STEWART. The Vaccination Assistance Act expires in 1968 and we think that this can be included in the Public Law 749 extension act that we are talking about.

Mr. ROGERS. Wait. Let me get this clear. Are you asking for renewal of the vaccination program or not?

Dr. STEWART. No; we are not.
Mr. ROGERS. You are not?
Dr. STEWART. That is correct.

Mr. ROGERS. There is a German measles problem and maybe a breakthrough.

Mr. CARTER. That is a distinct disease?

Mr. ROGERS. So was the vaccination program for distinct diseases as I understand it.

Dr. STEWART. At the present time with the German measles vaccine, of course, it is still in the research stage. We don't know whether there will be a breakthrough to an available vaccine.

Mr. ROGERS. You don't think we need a continuation of our vaccination program?

Dr. STEWART. We think this can be built into the normal program that we have in parts of Public Law 89-749.

Mr. ROGERS. Then there is some flexibility there?

Dr. STEWART. There is flexibility to the point at which you suddenly need to move on something. If a breakthrough on a vaccine should occur right away, assuming that Public Law 89–749 had been implemented, the States have already got programs going under these funds.

Their flexibility is on a year-by-year basis, too.

Mr. ROGERS. Don't you have the flexibility to work in any vaccine that comes in ?

As I recall, we gave the Secretary the authority to say which vaccine would be used or included in case of breakthrough. We specifically made provisions in that law for him to have that authority so that you could completely set aside one program for a minute if there was a great emergency come through until you could get some additional funds.

Dr. STEWART. That is correct, Mr. Rogers, but it could be that you have a year in which the States have used the money under the present Vaccination Assistance Act for their regular measles campaign, for example.

Mr. Rogers. That is what I am saying. Yet you are not asking to continue it?

Dr. STEWART. I think that we are not talking about flexibility within one item of the Public Health Service budget. We are talking about flexibility because we have so many items and one can't tell what contingencies are going to arise. It may be vaccine. It may be a disaster

on an Indian reservation. It may be a disaster on our rivers. It may be something else.

Mr. ROGERS. We have a lot of flexibility there, particularly with our comprehensive health policy that we just passed to give lump sums to the States.

Dr. STEWART. That money is for the States to conduct their health programs as they set priorities on a regular basis. It does not take care of contingencies. They would have the same difficulty of meeting contingencies that we have.

Mr. Rogers. But you also have project grants that you are continuing for these contingencies?

Dr. STEWART. No; the project grants are not for contingencies. The project grants are for special problems that are not national in scope, or for initiating new programs or this type of thing.

They will be used in a regular movement of the health programs within the State.

Mr. ROGERS. Let's get back to the central point, then. What are you going to do about your vaccination program?

Dr. STEWART. Well, the vaccination program has now become part of the regular program of the States.

Mr. ROGERS. It is still being funded through that program, isn't it?
Dr. STEWART. In part.
Mr. ROGERS. How are you going to fund it?

Dr. STEWART. That money was to fund communities or States on a project basis if they felt they needed the assistance and it can be either for the purchase of vaccine or they can get the vaccine from us. It also pays for the public information campaigns that go with such programs.

Our program has shown that you can develop vaccination programs but the vaccination effort is being built more and more into the regular programs of health departments and other agencies in communities and States.

Mr. ROGERS. Where is the money coming from?

Dr. STEWART. Well, it is coming from private sources. It is coming from State and local governments.

Mr. Rogers. In other words, you are saying that it is not necessary to have Federal funds for the vaccination programs now?

Dr. Stewart. I think it is only necessary in the future to the extent that the State would choose to use some of the Federal funds under the formula grants in Public Law 89-749 for vaccination programs. There is a vaccination program going all the time and the States use these funds for special purposes under the Vaccination Assistance Act but with Public Law 89–749 they can build this into their normal program.

Mr. Rogers. You mean for comprehensive health planning?

Dr. STEWART. It is not in the health planning. It is in the section of the Formula grants in Public Law 89–749 which were formerly categorized into heart disease, cancer, and so on, but are now a pool of

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