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to 1855 with the Choctaw Indians. Under these treaties the Federal Government agreed to appropriate annually in perpetuity certain sums which aggregate $10,520 for certain purposes, such as the support of light horsemen, the support of a blacksmith, for education, and the purchase of iron and steel.

Obviously, the purposes for which those amounts were originally intended have long since passed, so that this annual appropriation has been used in more recent years for making per capita payments to the Choctaw Indians, for such things as the remodeling of their council house, and the rehabilitation of needy members of the tribe. All of those expenditures were made pursuant to authorizations which were made by Congress.

Then, as I say, on September 1, 1950, Congress passed this act that authorized the commutation of that annual amount. The amount of $350,666.67 represents the amount which, at 3 percent, would produce $10,520 in income annually. That is how it is arrived

at.

Now, this estimate that is before the committee is to provide funds for carrying out the act, including the amount which is required to defray the expenses of determining the persons who are entitled to payment and actually making payment.

Now, involved in this distribution are about 20,599 shares which represents the number of living people who were on the Choctaw rolls when the roll was first established back in the early 1900's. Only about 8,200 of those people are still alive, which means that about 12,500 shares are now owned by the heirs of original enrollees, and those 12,500 shares represent between 40,000 and 50,000 people, so that you have a total of around 50,000 or 60,000 people who will share in this payment. The work involved in connection with determining the persons entitled thereto, to this special payment, the heirs of the deceased enrollees will constitute a very considerable task, and we estimate that it will take about 15 months to complete the job, about 6 or 7 months in this fiscal year, and 7 to 8 months in the next fiscal

year.

So, the estimate before you does include slightly over $34,000 to defray the expenses of carrying out the provisions of this act of Congress in addition to the amount which is required in the commuting of the treaties themselves.

THE BASIC LAW

Mr. KIRWAN. Is that all of your statement?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. KIRWAN. Who is the author of this basic law; who presented it? Mr. GREENWOOD. I am not sure. It originated in the House. I believe Congressman Stigler, of Oklahlma, sponsored it.

Mr. KIRWAN. Congressman Stigler, of Oklahoma?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir.

THE REFERENDRUM

Mr. KIRWAN. If it was passed September 1, 1950, why was it not possible to hold the referendum in time to get this request into the regular 1952 bill?

Mr. GREENWOOD. The referendum was actually held during the month of May. It took some time to prepare for the referendum. We had to have ballots printed, and we had to have them distributed, and the ballots had to be filled out by the persons who were entitled to vote on this question of commutation, and the ballots had to be processed after they got back to the agency office, so it took a considerable period of time before the referendum was actually completed and the results communicated to the Department.

Mr. KIRWAN. You say it was necessary to take from September to May to do that?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. KIRWAN. Why was it necessary to take all of that time? You are sure that it could not have been expedited any better or faster than that?

Mr. GREENWOOD. I think that we handled this as expeditiously as we could, Congressman.

Mr. KIRWAN. Briefly explain how the referendum was conducted and how the cost of it was handled.

Mr. GREENWOOD. The referendum was handled by distributing to the persons who the rolls showed would be entitled to vote on the question-printed ballots.

Mr. KIRWAN. Printed ballots?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir. Those were returned by mail in most cases or delivered in person in other cases. Then those ballots were tabulated in the agency office. Of course, we had to verify from the records in the agency the eligibility of all persons who voted.

Mr. KIRWAN. That is the thing I am interested in, the printed ballots.

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir; and that work was done by our regular staff in the agency office. There was some slight expense incurred in connection with the printing of the ballots themselves, and that was absorbed within the appropriations that we had available last year.

ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES

Mr. KIRWAN. The basic law authorizes an appropriation of not to exceed $5,000 for expenses of conducting the referendum and making the payments. Why are you requesting $34,333 for those payments?

Mr. GREENWOOD. As I indicated, Mr. Chairman, we asked for no money for the referendum itself. We absorbed that expense within the appropriations which were available for the last fiscal year. I do not know who made the estimate of $5,000 for the entire job. As far as I can determine it was not done by any of the people in the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Mr. KIRWAN. If you absorbed it before, could you not absorb it again somewhere?

AMOUNT OF WORK IN MAKING PAYMENTS

Mr. GREENWOOD. No, sir. This is a tremendous job which we have before us. We experienced a parallel case 2 years ago. An appropriation was made for the purpose of paying the purchase price of the coal and asphalt lands of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Indians. That involved some $8,500,000, and in 1949 we began paying that

money out per capita, so we know what a tremendous job it is to determine the heirs of deceased members of the Choctaw Tribe.

I would like to show you, Mr. Chairman, one of the documents that was used in connection with determining the persons entitled to the payment that I have just referred to, to show you what a complicated process this is in order to make sure that payment goes to the people entitled to payment under the act.

NUMBER AND AMOUNT OF PER CAPITA PAYMENTS

Mr. KIRWAN. What do you think each individual will get out of this; that is, the ones entitled to it?

Mr. GREENWOOD. In some cases it will amount to a very small

amount.

Mr. KIRWAN. What would the smallest amount be that any of them would receive?

Mr. GREENWOOD. The average number of heirs per deceased enrollee runs between 3 and 4, and there are about 12,500 deceased enrollees. Mr. KIRWAN. 12,500 into $350,000; is that it?

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Mr. GREENWOOD. But then, you have to multiply your 12,500 by about 4 people, because there is an average of 4 heirs for each deceased enrollee, and there are 12,500 deceased enrollees.

Mr. KIRWAN. Then that would make about 48,000.

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes; 48,000, plus your living enrollees; around 8,200. So, you have more than 56,000 people who are entitled to share in this payment.

Mr. KIRWAN. The amount of this payment is what?

Mr. GREENWOOD. $350,666.67.

Mr. KIRWAN. Before it is done it will take more money to process these payments than the heirs will get out of them.

Mr. GREENWOOD. That is right.

Mr. KIRWAN. This is about the first time we ever kept our word with the Indians, is it not? I guess that is about the only advantage we will get out of it, keeping our word.

Mr. GREENWOOD. This is one case where the United States is meeting its treaty obligations.

Mr. KIRWAN. We are going to pass out to the tribe that we certainly keep our word with the Indians. So, if we keep our word in this case we will give each one of them about 2 bucks.

Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

SCHEDULE FOR MAKING PAYMENTS

Mr. KIRWAN. You expect to make payments amounting to $150,000 in this fiscal year. Why can you not make more than $150,000 in payments, and when do you estimate you will complete the payments? Mr. GREENWOOD. We estimate with the staff we expect to provide for this work that they can process about 100 cases a day at the most. Mr. KIRWAN. You are sure, then, that you cannot move anybody from the rest of the Department, like borrowing one from each bureau

or office without making more charges in order to process those payments?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir; particularly since we have had to reduce our staff both here and in the field as the result of the appropriation cuts that we sustained.

Mr. KIRWAN. Then you are sure that you have not one spare man or woman down there in the Department that you can put on this work?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Mr. KIRWAN. I am asking that only because when the regular bill comes in next year somebody may be saying we can cut you 10 percent here and there. If you have not enough extra people to process the distribution of $350,000, then you are running on a tight schedule. Mr. GREENWOOD. We are, sir.

Mr. KIRWAN. You are pretty well sewed up with the lack of funds. That is why I am asking that question in preparation for the regular bill when it comes along.

Mr. GREENWOOD. The very office in which this job will be done was curtailed very substantially this fiscal year as a result of the appropriation cut which we had.

Mr. KIRWAN. You expect to spend $20,000 of the $34,000 this year in making payments amounting to $150,000. Now, next year you are going to pay out $200,000. How can you pay out $200,000 at a cost of $14,000 when it is taking $20,000 to pay out $150,000 this year?

WORK PRELIMINARY TO MAKING PAYMENTS

Mr. GREENWOOD. The reason is that there is a considerable amount of preliminary work that must be done this year before we can begin making the payments.

Mr. KIRWAN. Then it is the expense of getting the preliminary work back of you first?

Mr. GREENWOOD. That is the document we will use in processing them [indicating].

Mr. KIRWAN. Well, if you have to go through each one of these you will be back in here for another supplemental appropriation.

Mr. GREENWOOD. We hope to complete it in the 15 months that we have estimated, and this is the amount we have estimated it will require.

ADDITIONAL PERSONNEL

Mr. KIRWAN. I think you have made a request here for nine additional jobs?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir; there are nine jobs included in this estimate.

PRINTING AND REPRODUCTION

Mr. KIRWAN. You are asking for $700 for printing and reproduction. You are sure that could not have been absorbed in some other part of the Department in your printing bill?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir. We have examined this estimate very carefully. We have taken into consideration the staff facilities and the funds that are available now for our regular operations, and this is our best and lowest estimate of the amount which is required to do this job.

OVER-ALL COST TO THE GOVERNMENT

Mr. KIRWAN. You are thoroughly satisfied that in order to stay abreast of a law that our Congress passed it is going to cost $34,000? Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir, that is our best estimate. As a matter of fact, Mr. Chairman, we estimated that this job would cost us about $5,000 more than the $34,000.

Mr. KIRWAN. This is a job that the Congress authorized to be done, and it is basic law?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Mr. KIRWAN. We made an agreement 150 years ago. We entered into it with the Indians, and it is going to cost us money to comply with it?

Mr. GREENWOOD. It will save us money in the long run because of the fact that this does do away with the permanent annual appropriation that has had to be made under the treaty provisions. This liquidates the treaty obligations from here on.

Mr. KIRWAN. Of course, as I said earlier, we would not want the Indians, or any other part of the world, to think that we do not keep our word or fail to live up to our obligations.

That is all. Mr. Furcolo, do you have any questions?

EXPLANATION OF REFERENDUM AND BALLOT USED

Mr. FURCOLO. How often are these elections held? I am not very familiar with this.

Mr. GREENWOOD. This one was a special election which was held pursuant to the act of September 1, 1950, just for the purpose of determining whether the tribe would agree to this commutation of their treaty.

Mr. FURCOLO. In other words, it is not anticipated that it will be necessary to hold any other election at any other time in the future? Mr. GREENWOOD. No; not for this purpose.

Mr. FURCOLO. You say you sent out ballots. What did you say on the ballots? Were they written out in English, or how did you do that?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes; they were printed in English, and it was just a case of answering "Yes" or "No" whether they agreed or did not agree to the commutation of their treaty provisions.

Mr. FURCOLO. Will you tell me the wording on the ballot if you remember it, just roughly?

Mr. GREENWOOD. I do not remember; I do not think I saw one of the printed ballots, but I will supply a copy of the form for the record. (The matter referred to is as follows:)

BALLOT

The act of September 1, 1950 (Public Law 747, 81st Cong.), authorizes the appropriation of a lump sum of $350,666.67 in commutation of obligations of the United States under treaties of November 16, 1805, October 18, 1820, January 20, 1825, and June 22, 1855, to pay annual annuities totaling $10,520 to the Choctaw Nation.

Under the act, this commutation is subject to approval by a majority of the votes cast by the enrolled members of the Choctaw Nation in a referendum election conducted by the Secretary of the Interior under such rules and regulations as he shall, with the concurrence of the Principal Chief of the Choctaw

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