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Mr. KESTER. 1 am an attorney, sir.

Mr. MACDONALD. You are an attorney?

Mr. KESTER. Yes, sir. We rely for advice in matters of this sort on those professionally skilled in the area and for that reason the Army for years has retained an advertising agency to advise us on these matters. We see no reason at this point to question their judgment in this area.

Mr. MACDONALD. Thank you.

Mr. VAN DEERLIN. Was the placement schedule on radio and television for this project left entirely to the advertising agency that you have retained?

Mr. KESTER. Yes, sir. We didn't try to second-guess them on that. That is something we considered beyond our competence.

Mr. VAN DEERLIN. You have not participated in the selection of stations for this schedule of advertising?

Mr. KESTER. Not at all.

Mr. VAN DEERLIN. Thank you. Now, what ground rules were established to accompany the placement of advertising? Have you set any standards regarding agencies-what kind of programing you wanted to avoid being near?

Mr. KESTER. We gave the agency general guidance in that we wanted to reach an audience of young men 17 to 21 years old, primarily the high school graduate, young men who might be ready to enter the military service. We said to the agency, "Advise us as to what the best means is to contacting them on electronic media.” The agency had, through survey data, a list of the radio programs or the television programs which are most listened to by people in this age group.

Mr. VAN DEERLIN. Were there any instructions given-and, if so, were they given by you or the agency-in regard to avoiding adjacency to news programs?

Mr. KESTER. There were no such directions given by the Department of the Army and I am quite sure none were given by the agencies.

Mr. VAN DEERLIN. Any such questions should be addressed to the agencies?

Mr. KESTER. Yes, we gave no instructions.

Mr. MACDONALD. Do you think it would be better for our purposes to have the agency here rather than you people?

Mr. KESTER. The agency is here, sir, but I think we can address the kinds of questions you are asking. If we cannot, we will hold them.

Mr. VAN DEERLIN. Do the individual services use different advertising agencies?

Mr. WOLLSTADT. Yes. Each one has a different agency.

Mr. VAN DEERLIN. There have been some inquiries apparently by the J. Walter Thompson Co. in regard to Marine recruit advertising. I don't know exactly what this covered-whether the Marine Corps was studying a similar program, or whether they wanted to profit by your mistakes, if any. Can you address yourself to that sir?

General BECKINGTON. Yes, sir. J. Walter Thompson Co. is our advertising agency, and has been for a number of years, and we have

asked them to develop for us a proposed new recruiting theme for the Marine Corps so that I believe that is what they have been involved in for us.

Mr. VAN DEERLIN. What was the thrust of the inquiries that they have been making?

General BECKINGTON. Well, we wanted to know from them if they could advise us on what theme might appeal to the young man who would be either interested in joining the Marine Corps or who might become so interested. We have had over the years three or four differing recruiting themes that have formed the sort of thrust you see on recruiting posters and billboard advertisements and so on, and it was that type of an examination and evaluation and advice we asked the J. Walter Thompson Co. to review at this time.

Mr. VAN DEERLIN. Was there also some concern that the project undertaken by your sister services might dry up some free time for the Marines, which according to figures was already below what the Army had?

General BECKINGTON. Not at the time we asked them to do this, Mr. Van Deerlin. Our request to the J. Walter Thompson Co., who we retain on sort of a permanent-not a permanent basis, but the matter is reviewed periodically. But our request to them on this point was made back in the late winter, late December or early January time frame, as I recall, before we in the Marine Corps were aware of any plan to test paid advertising by the Army.

Mr. VAN DEERLIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MACDONALD. Before you start, Mr. Brown, I would point out to the committee that we have not even seen the slides yet and probably a quorum call will come up at 10 or quarter past 12, so I thought we maybe ought to shut off questioning around 5 minutes to 12 so we can see an example of what is being shown, although I think maybe most of us have seen it on TV already, so if we could prime up our questions, it would be helpful.

Mr. BROWN. I was interested in figures on page 8 also, and I would like to see further elaboration on them to include the cost of making those free spots as opposed to the results that they obtained. It occurs to me that perhaps the reason the Air Force got better treatment from radio and television, the licensed media, was they have, in fact, produced a better program in terms of free time.

I gather this $11.8 million includes only the cost, then, of the free spots as identified by the Federal Communications Commission and does not include what Harry James or the Singing Sergeants does on either side of the free spot; is that right?

General KIDD. That is correct.

Mr. BROWN. So maybe it is the Air Force is a better programer in terms of entertainment than the Marines or the Navy. But until we know how much they put into that part of the effort, there is no way of assessing whether the Marines are doing better or worse, relatively, than the Air Force or Navy in this regard, or the Army. Any comments?

Mr. WOLLSTADT. We will furnish it for the record for each service. Mr. BROWN. I assume it will be based on four different analyses of costs of making these programs? Could we get a common analysis of

the cost of the program? I assume if you buy Harry James, it would cost a little more than if you asked the Singing Sergeants, somebody in the higher places asked the Singing Sergeants to record something?

Mr. WOLLSTADT. We will do our best to achieve comparability in the estimates and by "we" I mean the Office of the Secretary of Defense will try to make the analysis comparable.

(The following information was received for the record:)

COST OF PRODUCING ADVERTISING SPOTS USED IN PUBLIC SERVICE TIME TV AND RADIO

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The above costs are not comparable between services; and for the Army and Marine Corps, the costs are not comparable from FY 1970 to FY 1971. The reasons are:

1. The Army FY 1971 costs are for advertising spots which are being produced for both public service and paid broadcasting. The FY 1971 amount shown above does exclude the cost of producing spots used solely on paid broadcasting time. For the paid TV/radio test there are also talent residual charges and network integration charges.

2. In FY 1970, the Marine Corps produced their advertising spots in-house, therefore they did not include the cost of Marine camera crews, film and prints. In FY 1971 the Marine Corps shifted to a commercial source.

3. The Navy and Air Force amounts exclude the cost of service camera crews when used, and the cost of prints.

Mr. BROWN. All right, sir, the other question I would like to ask you is, Have you done any analysis on the costing out of the current methods or recently used methods of recruiting versus the results, compared to the results which you seem to feel that you are getting from this method of recruiting? That is the first question. Do you understand what I ask?

Mr. WOLLSTADT. I guess I don't, I am sorry.

Mr. BROWN. Could you tell me what it cost the service now to get any of the branches of the service, that is, to get a recruit sworn in? Mr. WOLLSTADT. I can't tell you. I think perhaps each of the services here could speak to that point. I think there will be variations because in some cases you require a higher percentage of more sophisticated people, so the services are not uniform in that respect.

Mr. BROWN. I would assume each service has some judgment as to who gets the more sophisticated people, but, Admiral, do you have specific figures?

Admiral GREENE. For the Navy, currently the cost is about $435 per enlistee this spring.

Mr. BROWN. Did the Marines or Air Force have comparable figures?

General KIDD. I don't have one available. I will be happy to supply it for the record. (See p. 43.)

Mr. BROWN. Are these based also on the same method of evaluation of costs?

Mr. WOLLSTADT. We will try to assure you that they are.

Mr. BROWN. You know, in the post office building where my office is located, each of the services has a little free space and I don't know if somebody has to clean that space and light it, and so on, and I am curious whether it is included in all of these figures or not included or what?

Admiral GREENE. We figure the salaries for civilians and pay for our military recruiters and overhead expense and advertising costs, that all goes into the $435 per enlistee.

Mr. BROWN. And the free programing?

Admiral GREENE. Yes.

Mr. BROWN. Do the Marines have any comment there?

General BECKINGTON. We do have the same figure. I don't have it here at my fingertips, and will supply it. I think we use the same costing method that Admiral Greene just related to you.

All I know is really it keeps going up actually, the cost of recruiting service as measured by the cost per recruit actually enlisted. (The following table was received for the record:)

COST PER ENLISTED RECRUIT (ACTIVE FORCES)

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Mr. BROWN. All right. It occurs to me again the way to assess whether you rely on the media for free time as opposed to paid-for time and everything relates to how much you put into creation of that free time versus paid-for time and it all relates to whether you are getting better results one way or the other.

Admiral GREENE. The Navy's costs are based on free advertising all the way.

Mr. BROWN. I understand they are, but that advertising is not totally free to the Navy; in other words, it cost the Navy something to put together the programs sent out to the media?

Admiral GREENE. Yes.

Mr. BROWN. All right. What about the provision of free material to other media in the jurisdictional area, as the licensed media, but this question is as to newspapers, magazines, billboards, and is their material provided free to these people and to what extent is it used and how does the cost of provision of that material relate to its use?

Mr. WOLLSTADT. In connection with printed media there are differences among the services. The Army and the Air Force do use paid advertising and have for a good many years. I think last year the Army spent $2 million.

Mr. KESTER. $1.7 million.

Mr. WOLLSTADT. $1.7 million primarily for magazine advertising. The Navy does not use paid advertising and I am not sure about the Marine Corps, but I think the Marine Corps does not.

General BECKINGTON. We have a very small amount of money for paid advertising, Mr. Brown. This year it is in the neighborhood of $25,000, this fiscal year we are in now. It is almost entirely, and I believe really I can say "entirely," used in college newspapers to essentially place a very small ad that announces the date of the

planned visit of what we call our "officer selection officers," the ones who visit the campuses and seek to interest young men in our Marine

officer program.

Mr. BROWN. It would be helpful, I think, if we could get that information, General.

(The following information was received for the record:)

COST OF PRODUCING PUBLIC SERVICE RECRUITING ADVERTISING IN PRINT MEDIA The advertising material is provided free to the newspapers, magazines and billboard operators. The cost of producing the advertising material is as follows:

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1 Newspaper only. Army and Air Force received no public service magazine space.

The estimated use of the material prepared for public service space is as follows:

Army. Public service space was provided in over 400 small-town newspapers in FY 1970. During FY 1971, 603 newspapers published public service ads or recruiting information columns. During FY 1970, 8,400 billboard posters were displayed. For FY 1970 to date, about 3,000 billboard posters were displayed. Army has no dollar estimate of the value of the public service space in newspapers and billboards.

Navy. The estimated value of the public service space is:

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Marine Corps.-The estimated value of public service space is:

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Mr. BROWN. Did you have a comment, Admiral, about the Air Force?

General KIDD. Yes, sir, this fiscal year the Air Force is spending $501,000 for paid periodical advertising. This, however, covers a rather wide spectrum of customers and includes Air Force Academy

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