Mr. DUNCAN. If you work at it.

Mr. MATTHEWS. Yes, sir. In fact, I think we almost have it now. Mr. DENTON. This is in the northern part.

Mr. MATTHEWS. This is what we would call the north central part of Florida. This area is an agricultural area. What I am hoping is somehow or other we might consider other criteria than these that have been considered so far for the establishment of job training centers. I realize you are limited by law, but perhaps by interpretation there might be some thought given to this liberalization. For example, one of the greatest things we need here to combat poverty is a training program in this area that will feed trained people back into this area and at the same time frankly will by reason of its presence add to payrolls of the area. Yet we find that the criteria for the establishment of the job centers are not sufficient to accommodate that thought. Dr. Singletary, specifically let us talk of the criteria for these job training centers and I want to thank you again for the conferences you have given me. You have always been honorable and above board, I admire you very much.

Mr. SINGLETARY. Thank you very much, sir.

SELECTION OF SITES FOR JOB CORPS CENTERS

Mr. MATTHEWS. I remember we say, first, we have to have an abandoned military installation, or an area where the cost is not excessive. That would be one criteria. Am I right?

Mr. SINGLETARY. That is correct.

Mr. MATTHEWS. A second criteria would be, as Mr. Shriver mentioned this morning, a proposal.

Mr. SINGLETARY. That is right.

Mr. MATTHEWS. A good proposal that meets your particular objectives. What would be another criteria?

Mr. SINGLETARY. We go through three stages. First of all we have to have a proposal. If there is a proposal to us to create a Job Corps center either on a site independent basis or specifically there, it then goes through the review and evaluation process of our in-house team and some consultants that we use from outside. This review board decides fundamentally on the question of program content. Such things as this program in keeping

MOTION TO RECOMMIT THE AUTHORIZATION BILL

Mr. FLOOD. May I interrupt? It might interest you, Sargent, this is a vote on the motion to recommit the Conference report on your bill. The first go-round was 145 "yes" and 120 "no." The motion to recommit is with instructions to restore the Governor's veto.

CRITERIA FOR SETTING UP JOB CORPS CENTERS IN AN AREA

Mr. MATTHEWS. In other words, Dr. Singletary, the proposalMr. SINGLETARY. There must be a location that is acceptable as measured by certain things. Cost is certainly foremost. Also, are the facilities there? Can the job that needs to be done be done there? It

is at this point that certain other considerations come in quite frankly. What is the community relationship? Is this the kind of place where you can put 1,000 or 2,000 boys in an integrated program? Once you have a facility and a program then you have the hard question of bringing the question to Mr. Fogelman's table and seeing if they can negotiate a contract that the Government is willing to fund. Those are the three concerned.

PROPOSAL TO ESTABLISH JOB CORPS CENTER AT CAMP BLANDING, FLA.

Mr. MATTHEWS. As I understand one of the big problems we had in connection with the job center at Camp Blanding was the cost which you explained to me.

Mr. SINGLETARY. Yes.

Mr. MATTHEWS. Is there any way in the world of adding to that criteria this idea that a center there might in the future have a much better opportunity to combat poverty because of the creation of skilled labor, because of the added payroll? Would there be this opportunity perhaps for the consideration of other criteria that frankly might give us some help down there?

Mr. SINGLETARY. Yes, sir; but the problem you would run into, I think, is this: That would have to be true everywhere. If we accepted that as a criteria for Florida, we would have to accept it as a criteria acceptable everywhere. From the standpoint of cost, as you may know, there is a military facility in the neighboring State of Georgia, and they are very desirous of having a center. If we were to take the position that the Southeast needs one, we still have the problem of deciding, since there may be three or four States there with facilities, how I could go into north Florida when there are facilities available and proposals available to go elsewhere at lower cost. So when I come in here for the next go-round and the cost per enrollee goes up, I have a feeling that this committee might be somewhat unforgiving.

PROPOSALS FOR JOB CORP CENTERS IN THE SOUTH

Mr. MATTHEWs. Let me ask you this. Do you know how many proposals you have from the southern area of the United States for these job training centers?

You mentioned possible Georgia and Camp Blanding, Fla.

Mr. SINGLETARY. From Texas across

Mr. SHRIVER. You have some in Texas so you do not need to add those. What you are talking about is Louisiana and the other States. Mr. MATTHEWS. Starting with Louisiana; yes, sir.

Mr. SINGLETARY. There has been some conversation about one in Louisiana.

Mr. MATTHEWS. I mean a definite proposal like we submitted for Camp Blanding.

Mr. SINGLETARY. Two definite proposals.

Mr. MATTHEWS. One from North Florida and one from another State?

Mr. SINGLETARY. That is right.

We have a number of other proposals in urban centers that are siteindependent. Our big problem is not proposals, Congressman, in this particular case. It is location. It is facility.

BOYS' CLUB PROJECT, GAINESVILLE, FLA.

Mr. MATTHEWS. Coming to another subject, I mentioned yesterday about the boys' club in my home community of Gainesville, Fla., and I regret again this conversation is provincial, but perhaps it might be helpful in other areas.

pic

What they were interested in doing is to get some help with what they call a film loop library program. This is the kind of program where they take, as I understand, the 16-millimeter educational tures and reduce them for presentation on an 8-millimeter projector. They have many volunteers who are willing to proceed with helping them, but they just do not have the money to do this kind of work. Yesterday we mentioned this matter.

Is there any program available where a boys' club, as such, could get help in getting film like this? Could someone answer that question for me?

Mr. BERRY. In that particular service program, this would have to be considered in light of whether it constituted an educational program which might be used either as a demonstration or training

program.

Generally, if there is an agency in a community that has a program which is considered to be addressed to a condition of poverty or some phase of it, while a community action group is in process of development, we will receive an application for a specific proposal as the first building block in the development of a coordinated community action

program.

In Gainesville, it is our recollection that there is a community action agency. I do not know that it has been funded directly, but we have information and our field representatives have been in the area helping in the development of such an organization. If such an organization came into being, the boys' club would submit its specific proposal as a component program for funding, which in turn could be submitted to us for consideration on its merits as the beginning of an action program in connection with their program development generally.

Mr. MATTHEWS. Let me see if I understand.

What they are interested in is indigenous help for the boys' club.
Mr. BERRY. Yes.

Mr. MATTHEWs. What you are interested in, of course, is to obey the law that sets up your program.

As I understand, there may be a possibility for them working through a community action program to get this indigenous help. There might be that possibility.

Mr. BERRY. Yes.

DELAYS IN CORRESPONDENCE WITH OEO

Mr. MATTHEWS. Let me ask this question. Is Mr. Francis McGuire with you, Mr. Shriver?

Mr. SHRIVER. Yes.

Mr. MATTHEWs. Is he here today?

Mr. SHRIVER. No.

Mr. MATTHEWS. I am not complaining about this because this happened before you really had a chance to get organized, but this is one problem I have had. I wrote Mr. McGuire a letter dated May 19,

giving him all this information, and asking him please to give it every possible consideration and advise me of any action taken. Let me emphasize I am not complaining because I do not think you were even organized then, but I have never heard from this letter. I imagine many Congressmen have the same experience.

What I am going to ask, Mr. Shriver, I gave Mr. Long a couple of other letters I mentioned, shall I give these to him?

Mr. SHRIVER. That would be fine.

Mr. MATTHEWS. I should like Mr. McGuire to write these people in Gainesville, Fla., who have been talking to me about this project, and give them this very excellent suggestion you made.

Following through on that matter, Mr. Shriver, do you think in this budget that you have requested enough money to do these housekeeping chores?

Mr. SHRIVER. You mean answering the mail?

Mr. MATTHEWS. Yes, I mean simply answering the mail. I know it is a tremendous problem.

Mr. SHRIVER. We will be able to do it if we get the personnel slots that we have talked about. We have been operating particularly with respect to the OEO headquarters itself with a very severe personnel limitation. So much so in the Office of Congressional Relations we have about one-quarter as many people as other offices handling a comparable amount of work. We now clearly see that in all of our areas it is going to take more people. We need to keep a closer eye on all of these programs once they get underway. We have had just barely enough staff to get these things we are doing started, and if we are going to continue to move ahead our current staff is not going to be able to do both well.

Mr. MATTHEWs. I would certainly be willing to give you a lot more money if you need it to handle these chores.

I received a letter recently from a gentleman wanting to know why he did not get his job that he applied for. He started out by saying, "If you will stop telling all your jokes and attending all the fish fries and get me my job, you would be a lot better off." I had never heard of his application. I did see that he had sent somebody in your organization a letter 2 months ago and he had not heard from it. I have given that letter to Mr. Long yesterday and I know he will get the information for me.

In another case, Mr. Shriver, there were some people in a community in my district at Newberry, who for weeks and weeks have been working on a proposition and their main problem is that they cannot get an answer to their letter. Again Mr. Long has that information and he will I know get me an answer on that.

I know you realize and your staff does how important it is to a Congressman when somebody writes him and asks "Where is my application," you can pick up a telephone and you can call somebody. If they cannot give him the job they can tell him why and give us a copy of the letter so we in turn can follow through with it.

I did want to stress in particular the need I think you have for ample money to have the housekeeping chores and you should ask for enough if you do not have it.

Mr. SHRIVER. Thank you.

Mr. MATTHEWS. You think with the budget you have the money you need to handle the housekeeping chores? Mr. SHRIVER. Yes.

DISCONTINUANCE OF HEAD START PROGRAM IN GAINESVILLE, FLA. Mr. MATTHEWS. I did not want to belabor this matter, and my colleagues on the committee have been very gracious to me but I think I must mention it again. We talked about it informally, Mr. Shriver. As all of us here realize, we in the southern part of the United States have a special problem. We are going to obey the law. I, as a Congressman, am telling my people as far as school desegregation is concerned we must obey the law. We want to abide by the Court's deci sions. We must do it.

I mentioned to you personally, Mr. Shriver, this Head Start program in Gainesville and Alachua County, Fla. If I am in error I will correct the record. If anybody here that knows about this program finds I am in error, I will correct it.

It is my understanding that in Gainesville, Fla., this last year they started off with a Head Start program that was approved by your office. They handled their Head Start program on the same basis they had handled school desegregation and they were proceeding on the basis of a court order with school desegregation. They had some 14 or 15 of these Head Start programs that were enthusiastically received. One program particularly was integrated. Let me emphasize that the whole program was on the basis of the court order that set forth the terms of desegregation and had been approved, as I understand, by your people before they started.

But now after about 2 weeks of the program there were some protests. I found out later that the protest was not a majority protest. The overwhelming majority of our people of all races, colors, and creeds were very happy with this Head Start program. But there was a protest.

Is Mr. Heller with you, Mr. Shriver?

Mr. SHRIVER. Yes, he is.

Mr. MATTHEWS. It is my understanding that the people in Gainesville, Fla., requested an investigation and Mr. Heller came down to Gainesville, Fla., and on the basis of that investigation they decided that the program was not running like it ought to be run. So the Alachua County School Board, which is the governing authority for that area, said we will just have to quit. So popular was the program. though, that in my former little hometown of Hawthorne, the program which happened to be composed entirely of our Negro students they went ahead with their own money.

I was glad to give a small contribution.

This is the point I want to make. Do you not think it is fair to assume that once these programs-next year if they get started and your people say they are all right-once they get started and they have these rules set down that somebody ought to be very careful before they break up the rules in the middle of the game?

Mr. SHRIVER. I would agree if that were true, but that is not the fact.

All of these Head Start programs began on the same rules. They were all told at the beginning that they would have to be in compli ance with civil rights law and with the regulations governing Head Start. They were all told that they were going to get a certain propor tion of the total money at the beginning, and that we would be looking