Mr. MALONE. Mr. Chairman, it is the Agency's plan in proceeding with this program to contract out as much of this work as possible and keep the inside staff to a minimum. In connection with such items as car body development, car configuration and wayside equipment we will need to have the services of outside contractors to assist us.

PASSENGER LOADS OF LOCAL BUS COMPANIES

Mr. DENTON. In past discussions of this project there has been considerable controversy regarding the potential passenger load. I would like to have you insert in the record at this point the combined passenger loads of the local bus companies in the area for the past 4 or 5 years.

I believe you have that?

Mr. HERMAN. Yes, sir.

(The information follows:)

Passenger volumes of Washington metropolitan area transit companies, 1960-64

PROJECTED PASSENGER LOADS OF TRANSIT SYSTEM

Mr. DENTON. Also, put in the record at this point the projected schedule of passenger loads of the rapid transit system for the first 10 years of the operation.

(The information follows:)

Estimated NCTA system passenger volumes, 1970-80

PASSENGER STATISTICS OF OTHER TRANSIT SYSTEMS

Mr. DENTON. I think it would be well to have in the record at this point a tabulation of passenger traffic statistics over a 4- or 5-year period for several cities now utilizing rapid transit systems.

(The information follows:)

1 Revenue passengers only.

Total passengers; includes both originating revenue passengers and passengers transferring from surface systems. For fiscal year ending June 30. 'Preliminary.

REVENUE AND OPERATING COST ESTIMATES

Mr. DENTON. Table 10 of your report entitled "Rail Rapid Transit for the Nation's Capital" lists your anticipated net revenue before depreciation through the year 2010. This undoubtedly includes some related revenue, but probably is composed mainly of fare income. This information indicates that the system will be wholly selfsustaining from its own income.

In view of the actual operating results of other cities having rapid transit do you feel your projection of income is rather optimistic? Mr. MCCARTER. No, sir. The cost of operation as projected is I think slightly on the high side, which means that we may have been conservative in estimating net revenues.

The cost per passenger, for example, was determined largely from the Toronto system, the most modern system on this continent. The system we are proposing will be even more modern from the standpoint of equipment as well as the manpower used on it. Since Toronto selected their equipment, for example, there has been development in equipment control which uses less manpower and we expect to take advantage of these advancements.

Architectural design of the stations and physical structures will also play an important role in determining final operational costs. For example, maintenance expense on a modern system will be lower than on older systems.

By way of illustration, here is a book of the architectural standards applicable to the new San Francisco system. We expect to develop similar detailed architectural standards and work on such standards is part of the justification for $1 million in this request. The ultimate result of this work will be a system which can be maintained and operated efficiently at the least possible expense.

In Toronto, the cost on their system before depreciation is 6 cents per passenger.

Mr. HERMAN. It costs 6 cents to carry each passenger on Toronto's rail system.

Mr. DENTON. Why, when other cities take a loss, do you think you will make a profit?

Mr. MCCARTER. There is considerable misunderstanding in this respect. Chicago does not have a loss. Chicago operated for 17 years without a loss under my direction.

Mr. DENTON. Practically everybody else does.

Mr. MCCARTER. Yes, practically everybody else does. Where they do, it is generally because they have not charged the proper rate of fare.

Boston, for instance, comes up with a loss by not charging a proper rate of fare to cover expenses.

New York operates at a loss because they also prefer a low fare and prefer to make up the deficit out of other general funds.

Mr. DENTON. What fare do you charge in Chicago?

Mr. MCCARTER. 25 cents.

Mr. HERMAN. May I point out, Mr. Chairman, that this system is not self-supporting as to capital requirements. We need the authorized $150 million of direct appropriations to meet the total cost of constructing and equipping the entire system.

Mr. MCCARTER. On the capital side.

Mr. HERMAN. Revenues could not repay the entire $431 million. Mr. MCCARTER. In Toronto, Cleveland, and Chicago they do not operate at a loss. They have a policy that they charge a rate of fare which will pay the cost.

Mr. DENTON. All municipally owned?

Mr. MCCARTER. That is right. Boston and New York, with a lower rate of fare, operate at a loss with the consent of the community because they prefer a lower rate of fare and prefer to make up their deficits from sources other than transit revenue.

Mr. DENTON. You indicate annual revenue of about $30 million with only $9 million for operating costs.

We understand that the operating cost of the D.C. Transit system is over $29 million to produce gross revenue of $32 million.

Conceding that the operating costs of a rapid transit system might be more economical than bus service, can there be actually this much saving in the cost of operation keeping in mind that you have to maintain your own right-of-way and buses run on city streets?

Mr. MCCARTER. Yes.

Mr. HERMAN. It cost D.C. Transit over 21 cents to carry each passenger. In the rapid transit system at Toronto it costs 6 cents per passenger, less than a third of the bus cost. This has already been demonstrated by actual performance.

This can be done and has been done. Our estimates are not just dreams but are actually being realized.

Mr. DENTON. When you say 6 cents a passenger what costs are included?

Mr. HERMAN. Total manpower of the system, power cost, cost of maintaining equipment, all the costs.

Mr. DENTON. How about the right-of-way?

Mr. HERMAN. Maintenance of right-of-way, everything other than depreciation and amortization of the capital costs.

Mr. DENTON. A person rides a bus to a transit station. How much will it cost him to come on a bus and how much on the rapid transit system?

Mr. MCCARTER. The estimate is that it would be split 50-50.
Mr. DENTON. It will cost him 50 cents or 25 cents?

Mr. MCCARTER. Twenty-five cents and the bus company will get 121⁄2 cents and rapid transit the same.

Mr. DENTON. The bus fare is now 25 cents. having 25 cents to break even on rapid transit. passengers will use bus to get to transit stations.

You are figuring on
You say half of the
How do you recon-

cile you and the buses carrying passengers for 12%1⁄2 cents?

Mr. MCCARTER. A passenger comes in on a feeder bus. They can operate the feeder bus for the 121⁄2 cents, as we do in Chicago.

Mr. DENTON. Can you carry passengers for that amount?
Mr. MCCARTER. It was computed on that basis.

Mr. DENTON. Half of your people will come in by bus, you say.
Mr. MCCARTER. Yes.

Mr. DENTON. That means half of the passengers will pay 12%2

cents to you.

Mr. MCCARTER. Yes.

Mr. DENTON. Which means your rate is more nearly that of New York's and Boston's than Chicago's.

Mr. HERMAN. The average fare will be 19 to 20 cents per passenger for the entire system.

Mr. DENTON. Your arithmetic is different from mine. If half come come in by bus and pay 12%1⁄2 cents

Mr. HERMAN. The half coming in on bus are those who come in during rush hours, the peak period. We expect half of those to come in by bus.

During the remainder of the day we expect the number of people to walk to our stations to get larger, shoppers taking the subway from one station to another for example. The volume of these off-peak and short trips will tend to increase the average. In addition, the fare will be 35 cents at two stations and that raises the average. The average fare amounts to between 19 and 20 cents.

Mr. DENTON. How about the minibus? Will you put that out of business?

Mr. HERMAN. No, sir. on our system to serve the of interest to the tourists.

We expect a great deal of tourist business
Capitol, Union Station, and several points
These will be 25-cent fares.

Mr. DENTON. The fare is not 25 cents, then, but 19 cents?
Mr. HERMAN. The average net fare is 19 cents.

Mr. DENTON. I believe you said it took 25 cents to break even. Mr. MCCARTER. We need a basic fare of 25 cents total. Our financial forecasts are predicated on a fare-splitting arrangement with the local bus companies. Our estimates take account of this. Where you have a coordinated system, taking Chicago, for instance, if a person gets on a bus there and pays 25 cents, he comes to the rapid transit and he gets a free transfer. If he pays 25 cents to start he gets a token. Therefore, many people in Chicago have a combined ride on both a bus and rapid transit for a total fare of 25 cents. For bookkeeping purposes, this 25 cents is in effect, allocated 121⁄2 cents to the bus and 121⁄2 cents to rapid transit.

The income and expenses on rapid transit are computed on that basis. It is allocated on the basis where the fare is collected, and there is a lot of 12%1⁄2-cent riding on the Chicago Rapid Transit System. Mr. DENTON. You will have transfers here, too, will you not? Mr. HERMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DENTON. Transfers both ways?

Mr. MCCARTER. That is what brings it down to 12%1⁄2 cents.

Mr. McDADE. Does the public agency in Chicago own the bus agency and the rapid transit system?

Mr. MCCARTER. Yes.

Mr. McDADE. You are in competition with the bus system here. The chairman's point is much more realistic.

Mr. MCCARTER. We are hoping we will not be in competition but to coordinate it.

53-537-65- -40

Mr. McDADE. I hope so, too. However, in Chicago, though they may issue transfers, the 25 cents revenue goes to the total system? Mr. MCCARTER. That is right.

Mr. McDADE. It will not do that here.

Mr. MCCARTER. That is right. We will have to have a division of fare. There was a time in Chicago, before it became a public operation, when rapid transit operated separately and the surface lines operated separately, and the utilities commission required a free transfer between them. They had to work out a division of fares. That is more or less as it would be here, like it was in Chicago before the consolidation.

Mr. DENTON. It all depends on working out an arrangement with the bus companies. If you do not work out that arrangement you are in bad shape.

Mr. MCCARTER. If we do not work out that arrangement, and if the regulatory body does not work with us, we could be in bad shape, yes.

LESS THAN 24-HOUR OPERATION

Mr. DENTON. In reading some of the material I believe I recall seeing that you plan to shut down the system between the hours of 1 a.m. and 5 a.m. Can you adequately serve the public with only part-time service?

Mr. MCCARTER. Yes.

Mr. MALONE. So far as shutdown in the evening is concerned this is a matter of current planning. This system will be operated in accordance with what the demand is at the time.

If it should develop that there would be sufficient activity in the downtown section to justify all night transit service it will be possible to provide 24-hour service.

Mr. DENTON. Off the record.
(Discussion held off the record.)

PUBLIC SAFETY PROCEDURES

Mr. DENTON. The subject of crime has been discussed extensively in connection with the operation of subways. Please describe your plans on this subject.

(The information follows:)

PUBLIC SAFETY

The Agency has been and is concerned with the problems of crime and passenge safety, and the policing of the proposed Washington subway system, and recognizes that this is a matter requiring special attention.

NCTA has made some preliminary investigations as to how other subway cities meet this problem. Discussions have also been had with officials in other cities who are engaged in the planning of new systems.

Two things are clear. First, the design and physical layout of stations, and the communications and surveillance devices incorporated in the public areas of a subway system are most important. All of the authorities consulted agree that in designing the facilities much can be done that will discourage criminal actions, enhance passenger safety, and facilitate policing.

Washington's subway will, of course, be an entirely new system. Here a unique opportunity exists to design and equip the facilities with a view to providing the greatest possible measure of public safety. Under the Agency's plans for the system, the mezzanine and platform levels of stations will be designed so as to be viewable throughout by station attendants. The numerous supporting columns and blind corners that are characteristic of some older systems will be eliminated.