Mr. GIAIMO. Then why do you need this now in the supplemental? Mr. MONK. We have to have money to pay the claims. Mr. GIAIMO. What claims? You do not have any. Mr. MONK. In the event we get one. Mr. GIAIMO. Do you anticipate having these claims between now and the time when you would file your fiscal 1967 budget? Mr. MONK. Certainly there is a potential. Mr. GIAIMO. Is there much of a potential as a practical matter as far as you can estimate at this time? Mr. MONK. We just do not know. Certainly we would want to be in the position to afford the relief. Mr. GIAIMO. Relief of this type is not of an immediate nature. Ever if a lending institution would threaten to do something, by the tim they threatened and started action of foreclosure it would be wel into 1966. Mr. MONK. It is possible that there are veterans who are right now faced with loss of their homes that could get relief under this provision Mr. EVINS. Mr. Monk, I want to commend you and your entin organization, and also Mr. Bland, your Assistant General Counsel. think he is a good lawyer. Mr. RHODES. May I ask one more question? If the veteran's home i insured under FHA can he get relief under this act. Mr. MONK. He can get relief under FHA. Mr. RHODES. But not under this act? Mr. MONK. Under this act but FHA would grant the relief and no VA. Mr. RHODES. But you would pick up the payment? Mr. MONK. No, sir; FHA, if it were an FHA loan, would pick u the payment. Mr. GIAIMO. FHA does not have a fund either. Mr. MONK. They will be asking for a fund. Mr. JONAS. They will be in. Mr. MONK. I believe they are asking for the same initial fund of half million dollars. Mr. JONAS. You will have to do some investigating. You have son findings of fact to make before you can pay up. Mr. MONK. That is correct. Mr. JONAS. You cannot just accept the statement of a mortgag that this guy meets these conditions. You have to investigate it. Mr. MONK. Yes, sir. CRITERIA FOR RELIEF Mr. GIAIMO. Who establishes whether the real estate is in an ar which is considered part of an area affected by a Federal shutdow Mr. MONK. Actually, he must be an employee of the installati that is being terminated. Mr. GIAIMO. As a practical matter, supposing he is an employee a Federal installation in New York City and he commutes to work fr Connecticut, would he be covered? Mr. MoNk. He would be covered if he lost his employment as result of the closing of the installation; yes. Mr. JONAS. Whether he was working for the installation or not. Mr. MONK. He has to be working for the installation. Mr. JONAS. Where is that provided? Mr. MONK. One of the provisions of the act is that the individual must be unemployed as the result of a closing of a Federal installation. Mr. JONAS. He can be unemployed if he is working for John Smith who goes out of business because the installation closes. You do not think he would be covered. Mr. MONK. We do not think so. I admit this is a pretty general language. Mr. JONAS. That is another one of those problems. Mr. MONK. We had anticipated, Mr. Jonas, that we would start this out at least covering only those people employed. They would not necessarily have to be a Federal employee. I think there are some people, I know there are some people, employed at military or other Federal installations that are not Federal employees. We would propose to cover those people, but not the man who maybe lost his barbershop in the community because the installation closed. Mr. EVINS. What about employees of private contractors that had a contract underway with a Federal installation? Mr. MONK. If they were employed at the installation we would propose to cover them. Mr. EVINS. Are there further questions, gentlemen? If not, thank you, Mr. Monk. I thank all of you for presenting these facts. SEPARATE FUND Mr. JONAS. Why couldn't this money come out of the loan guarantee fund? Mr. MONк. Specifically because the law says this will be an appropriation, a separate fund. Mr. JONAS. It says it will be a separate fund in the Treasury. Mr. MONK. Yes, sir. Mr. SHYTLE. We investigated that possibility. Mr. EVINS. Thank you, gentlemen. WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 8, 1965. HOUSING AND HOME FINANCE AGENCY WITNESSES ROBERT C. WEAVER, ADMINISTRATOR OFFICE OF THE ADMINISTRATOR ASHLEY A. FOARD, ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL (LEGISLATION) JOHN M. FRANTZ, AGENCY BUDGET OFFICER FEDERAL HOUSING ADMINISTRATION PHILIP N. BROWNSTEIN, COMMISSIONER HORACE B. BAZAN, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER (ADMINISTRATION) MASON C. DOAN, DIRECTOR, BUDGET DIVISION PUBLIC HOUSING ADMINISTRATION MARIE C. MCGUIRE, COMMISSIONER JOSEPH BURSTEIN, GENERAL COUNSEL NAT A. WHITMIRE, DIRECTOR, BUDGET BRANCH URBAN RENEWAL ADMINISTRATION WILLIAM L. SLAYTON, COMMISSIONER ROBERT C. GILKISON, BUDGET ANALYST COMMUNITY FACILITIES ADMINISTRATION RICHARD L. STILL, ACTING COMMISSIONER Mr. EVINS. The committee will come to order. We have with us this morning Dr. Weaver and his efficient staff and our friends of the Housing and Home Finance Agency. I think they are going to change the title of this Agency sometime soon now. We are glad to see you and to hear you, Doctor. We just completed a very big appropriation bill and here it is after Labor Day and you are up with some more requests for funds as contained in House Document No. 278. We have looked over your well-prepared budget. It is a very meaningful document and it covers a big field involving a lot of money. We shall be glad to hear you. Mr. WEAVER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. EVINS. Proceed as you wish. If you want to present your full statement, you may. Mr. WEAVER. I think maybe if I do it will be more succinct than if I ad lib. GENERAL STATEMENT Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, it is a very great privilege for me to present to you today the appropriation requests which will serve to put in motion the new and revised programs authorized by the Housing and Urban Development Act of 1965, a bill which, when the President signed it into law on August 10, 1965, became one of the great landmarks in our efforts to provide for every family in this country a decent home in a suitable environment. I have prepared a somewhat longer statement than usual, because the 1965 act contains many new and somewhat complicated provisions for which we are asking appropriation action. With this in mind, I shall identify and briefly explain each of these requests. I will leave it entirely to the convenience of the committee as to whether you wish to interrupt with questions on these items as I proceed, or whether you wish me to complete the whole statement. SALARIES AND EXPENSES For the appropriation "Office of the Administrator, salaries and expenses," we are requesting $3,605,000. This figure includes the cost of organizing, staffing, and putting into operation three major new grant programs-grants for basic water and sewer facilities, grants for certain neighborhood facilities, and grants to assist in advance acquisition of land for public facilities. I shall be discussing these three programs individually a little later. In addition, the estimate provides a limited number of additional positions in the Office of the Administrator to help with the tremendous workload involved in supervising and coordinating these new and complicated programs, seeing that they get off to a good start, and assuring that they are properly meshed in with all the existing activities of the Agency. These are the lawyers, economists, statisticians, management people, and so on who assist the Administrator in these overall tasks. INCREASED STAFF FOR OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATOR Mr. JONAS. May I interrupt, Mr. Chairman? Did you say you would prefer that we not ask questions? I have one right at this point while we are talking about the Office of the Administrator. Mr. EVINS. We will have a limited number of questions as we go through the general statement. Mr. JONAS. You say you are asking for a few new people. You are asking for 475, is that right? Mr. WEAVER. In the whole thing, but not in the Office of the Administrator. Mr. JONAS. The Office of the Administrator is 475. Mr. FRANTZ. That is under the appropriation, "Salaries and expenses." But that includes the three new major grant programs. Mr. JONAS. I figure you are asking for 1,318 new people throughout the Agency and 475 are to be in the Office of the Administrator. And you are asking for, you say, a little new money. Actually the "little" amounts to $3.6 million, which is just about equal to the total amount in the regular bill only recently signed. Mr. WEAVER. May I call your attention to the fact that of these 475 persons, 250, for example, are for the program of the water and sewer grants. Mr. JONAS. I did not intend to go into the individual cases. I just wanted to get the facts in the record at this point where you are talking about the Office of the Administrator. Mr. EVINS. He used the word "limited number." Mr. JONAS. You are asking for 475 new people in the Office of the Administrator and for an additional $3.6 million for salaries and expenses. Mr. WEAVER. Yes, sir. Mr. FRANTZ. May I correct that? The 475 people are in the appropriation, "Salaries and expenses," but those people are not organizationally in the Office of the Administrator. They are simply financed in a single appropriation. Mr. JONAS. They are not all administrative personnel in the Administrator's Office. Mr. WEAVER. That is right. Mr. JONAS. But as we refer to it here, it is in the Office of the Administrator rather than in urban renewal or public housing. Mr. WEAVER. Some of these are--what I was trying to point out is that 250, for example, which is the largest component in this number, are in CFA for the water and sewer grants. Mr. EVINS. You may proceed, Mr. Administrator. APPLICATION OF PLANNING REQUIREMENTS Mr. WEAVER. One of these specialized tasks is the responsibility for assuring that local activities being assisted under these programs are carried out within the framework of comprehensive planning for the development of the area. All three of the new grant programs, as well as some of our ongoing activities-notably the mass transportation grants and grants for open space land-specifically require that such determinations be made as a condition of the Federal financial assistance. I think it is very important these decisions be made at a single point and against a single set of criteria, otherwise, we would surely get confusion and duplication of effort. Accordingly, we have provided in this estimate for an increase in the professional staff to meet the workload which will be upon us in connection with the hundreds and hundreds of projects which will be coming through. MARKET ANALYSIS Another specialized task of the same nature is that of market analysis. In an increasing number of our programs we must make determinations concerning income levels and housing market conditions in local communities. This is true in connection with public housing, with relocation in urban renewal, with the 221 (d) (3) program of FHA, with our loans for housing for the elderly, and now the new rent supplement program. Here again, although much of the detailed work is done by the operating constituents, it is important. that certain basic data be available at one point for each local area |