The bill before you is the product of their study. Conditions have changed very much in 25 years, but at that time we had no great and renowned physicians helping us.

By reason of their advice we support H. R. 3889 and will be prepared, Madam Chairman, to have our medical consultant and the chief of claims here to analyze it further and answer the questions of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. There was a hearing before the Senate Committee on that matter. The Veterans of Foreign Wars appeared before the subcommittee.

Have the gentlemen from the Legion appeared?

Mr. KRAABEL. In the Senate?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. KRAABEL. We are prepared to as soon as they desire.

Mr. RANKIN. The thing that bothers me, Mr. Kraabel, is this; it seems to me some of the same diseases covered by the bill of 1924 are not covered by this legislation, cancer and paralysis, arthritis and neuritis, and diseases here that are more active.

Dysentery is not confined to the Tropics.

What I am afraid of is we are leaving out a group of men that should be included.

Mr. KRAABEL. May I proceed?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, the gentleman may proceed.

Mr. KRAABEL. This is a matter of patient study that we followed in the light of the experience reflected in the diseases enumerated here.

If we find they are not covered we are going to be here with a further amendment to include them.

Now we have gone over to the Veterans' Administration on leprosy. Believe it or not there are 15 or 20 youngsters in a leprosarium with leprosy.

Doctors tell us it has an incubation of up to 40 years. We want to make it flexible enough, so the doctors will say if he was in a region endemic of leprosy it is presumed it is due to service, and we are getting a great many cases.

Mr. RANKIN. I would make it presumptive in the case of leprosy and tuberculosis. I would give him presumptive service connection in order not only to take care of him but also to protect the rest of the American people.

Mr. PATTERSON. There are certain kinds of malaria which can be cured quite easily. There is a malignant malaria which lodges in the spinal column and there is always an aftermath. I am referring to tropical diseases, such as fungus diseases that they did not have in World War I.

For instance; this fungus disease which is only in the Tropics and we call it jungle rot, there are a lot of boys that can't shake that, and they have been treated by the best doctors in the country. This bill covers those that are the outstanding diseases.

He said dysentery is curable. Certain forms are and certain forms are not. If you get a good case of amebic dysentery and you are in the jungle for several months without treatment, that little bug will cause damage to your intestines and kidneys, and so forth. Those are conditions that just can't be repaired and it is really permanent damage.

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Mr. RANKIN. What I am calling your attention to is we are leaving out the diseases such as cancer, paralysis, arthritis, and neuritis. Mr. PATTERSON. Arthritis is in no way a tropical disease. There are tumors, malignant tumors.

Mr. KRAABEL. That is cancer.

Mr. PATTERSON. They are all found on page 3.

The CHAIRMAN. There is a longer list.

Mr. KRAABEL. I might say also, Madam Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, that terminology has changed a lot in the past 25 years. I think all of those are embraced in the present terminology. Mr. PATTERSON. Even brain tumors. Every form of tumor is in here. Of course tumors, in some cases, are not malignant.

Mr. ALLEN. What is the presumptive period?

The CHAIRMAN. A year. I understand in the case of tuberculosis, the Veterans' Administration decided a year was enough.

Mr. KRAABEL. They give it at least a year, but they don't want that to be inflexible.

Mr. RANKIN. Now we give them 7 years?

Mr. KRAABEL. You gave them 5 years when you passed it.

Mr. RANKIN. No; we gave them to January 1, 1925. The war really closed, the fighting did, in 1918, in November. These probably will show up much later than 1 year.

I was interested, if you are going to extend it 1 year, does that mean 1 year after the war is over?

The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentlemen yield? Mr. Hummer of the Veterans' Administration is here, and I think there is a regulation that extends the time beyond the year.

Mr. Rankin, Does it mean a year after the passage of the act?
General TAYLOR. A year after the passage of the act.

Mr. RANKIN. We waited 5 or 6 years to pass the bill and a great

many

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Mr. Hummer, my understanding is that under this bill, if it becomes law, and I am sure it will, if its writes into this law 1 year, the Veterans' Administration can extend that by direction.

Mr. HUMMER. We can.

Mr. KRAABEL. That is correct.

Mr. PATTERSON. For instance, the doctors I talked to about leprosy, for example. Now there is a period of incubation, a possible period of incubation of 10 years. Therefore, a man who had served in India, or any part of the East, and contracted the disease, it would not be apparent for a period of 7, 8, or 9 years after he was discharged from the service.

Mr. PHILLIPS. I would like to say also that I know in certain cases where doctors are not sure a veteran has amebic dysentery they give him treatments for it.

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has had great experience. May I say something there?

Mr. PHILLIPS. Yes; you may put it in the record.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; the gentleman has had experience of his own. General TAYLOR. All right, we have members of the committee present Madam Chairman.

From the State of Washington, George Flood;

From the State of Georgia, William G. McRae;

From Kansas, Lyle Armel;

Hugh Askew, from Oklahoma;

And from Texas Dr. W. J. Danforth, and Tom Miller from Nevada. Mr. RAMEY. General Taylor, is it a part of the record and may I ask you as an attorney, if the American Legion has come out as opposed to socialized medicine?

General TAYLOR. Positively.

Mr. RAMEY. Thank you.

General TAYLOR. Madam Chairman and members of the committee, again I wish to express my appreciation to you for this hearing.

We all know last session, the first session, there was what shall I call it, a spirit of economy. It certainly had something to do with the action on the bills reported by this committee. Now whether that same spirit of economy shall prevail during the present session, who can say, but this I know, as the Chairman has said to you, definitely we are going to appear before the Rules Committee in an effort to secure the necessary rules for immediate action upon those bills reported by this committee.

I am hoping, however, that this committee will give further consideration to some of the bills that have been recommended and introduced during the last session which were not acted upon last session. Mr. Sarbacher has put in a bill, H. R. 4900, which increases the rates all along the line for disabled men, widows and orphans and dependents. It is very carefully thought out and constructive and follows the action taken by our national rehabilitation commission and the national convention, and I am hoping, Madam Chairman, you will have early hearings on that bill, because the cost of living is still going up and veterans are in a sad plight.

Of course I know your committee is going to hold hearings.
Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Taylor.

General TAYLOR. Yes.

Mr. MITCHELL. I find on page 4 of this program a note entitled "Socialized Medicine" which has been scratched out.

General TAYLOR. The reason it was scratched out was stated before you came in.

The Chairman of this committee decided to present to the Committee on Veterans' Affairs an affirmative program, and all these other matters are affirmative matters, and in response to a question by Congressman Rankin what was our position on that, I said definitely that we are opposed to specialized medicine period. I don't believe the bill would come to this committee, but when it does come before any committee we will be before that committee actively and definitely opposing socialized medicine.

Mr. MITCHELL. Would you mind stating the Legion's position, if any, on the Marshall plan under consideration by the Secretary of State?

General TAYLOR. I would like to do that but I cannot do it before this committee.

Mr. MITCHELL. That will be in the record.

General TAYLOR. Yes, As a matter of fact the national commander of the American Legion will appear before the Foreign Relations

Committee of the Senate on the 21st of this month advocating the
Marshall plan.

The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentleman yield?

General TAYLOR. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to express my own very great appreciation of the work your medical board has done in building up better care for the men and your research work. It is rather marvelous. General TAYLOR. They have done a good job. A great job. Well, thank you, Madam Chairman.

Mr. RANKIN. I keep hearing this question of socialized medicine. Now I am just wondering where you draw the line. Does that mean the outlawing and discontinuing of the various boards of health and other divisions?

General TAYLOR. I would like to read that resolution in full. I don't think that is a question that is properly before this committee. Mr. RANKIN. It will come before Congress. I want to say this to you. I am not in favor of socialized medicine, as I understand it. Our State boards of health have done more to eliminate malaria and typhoid and other diseases of that kind than anything else I have known.

I am just wondering where this line should be drawn.

General TAYLOR. Now, Congressman, there is no one on this committee that is more thoroughly acquainted with this subject matter than you are, and you recall in the Harding Administration, when an effort was made to introduce socialized medicine, you are one of the ones who opposed it and put a stop to that kind of thing.

That is what we are fearful of. We don't want a big program of hospitals for World War I and World War II, together with the medical advances as a result of this, we don't want that now turned over, not only to veterans but to everybody else in the United States. We don't want socialized hospitalization. We are positive when that comes it will take hospitals and treatment away from the veterans and we are opposed to that.

Mr. RANKIN. But you would not interfere with the various boards of health that teach disease prevention.

General TAYLOR. You know they are all right.

Mr. PATTERSON. Mr. Rankin, there is a point of law right there that would raise a constitutional question, and I think that the State powers, even their police powers would take care of that.

For instance, a State is entitled to set up its own health regulations and so forth that are concerned for health and welfare.

General TAYLOR. Mr. Patterson, we all know what socialized medicine is. It is the Federal Government having to pay for it for everybody.

Mr. PATTERSON. That is exactly the point.

Mr. RANKIN. Let me say for the benefit of the gentleman that State's rights is the last gasp of the United States Supreme Court. Mr. PHILLIPS. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. RANKIN. Yes. I don't have the floor anyway.

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Tennessee.

Mr. PHILLIPS. May I ask you, General, in view of the many fine objectives which the American Legion has outlined to this committee. and in view of the many worthy programs that our veterans in this country need that have stood between us in two wars, is it possible

to pour billions and billions and billions of dollars into the ratholes of Europe and at the same time, with the same money, with the same resources in America, do to the veterans of this country, do what this Government ought to do for them and what we should do for the men who really defended our country-did the Legion give any consideration as to the ability of the Government to do that?

General TAYLOR. That is a long hypothetical question which you ask me, and which would take me an awfully long time to answer, and I am not going to attempt to answer it now.

All that I can say to you is that we are for the veterans and we are for the care of disabled veterans and we are for that first, last, and all the time.

As to any other program presented to this Congress we have very little to say.

Mr. PATTERSON. I think you will find this committee feels the same

way.

General TAYLOR. You are absolutely right.

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to say Judge Mathews was speaking to me the other day and told me he would be glad to hold hearings. How many bills are there?

The CLERK. We have 320 bills before the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. It does take a little while.

General TAYLOR. That one dealing with increases in pension and compensation rates, particularly when we think of the dependents and the widows and orphans, certainly that should be given very high priority.

The CHAIRMAN. I don't see how they get along.

General TAYLOR. Madam Chairman, Mrs. Lusk and gentlemen, I thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

The committee will stand adjourned until 10 o'clock Monday morning when the Disabled American Veterans will present their program.

(Whereupon, at 11:55 a. m., the committee adjourned until 10 a. m., Monday, January 19, 1948.)