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Mr. WHITE. There was a guess made by the FBI.
Mr. BENJAMIN. What was the guess?

Mr. WHITE. It was something in the order of magnitude of $100,000, if you added it all together over a period of years, that is my recollection of what I was told. There was no written report, Mr. Chairman.

INTENSIFIED SECURITY Mr. BENJAMIN. The newspaper account said the security was intensified thereafter. It is just inconceivable to me, if you have guards there, you could walk out with the building material. I presume in an office building, you could walk out with some supplies, but how do you walk out with building materials?

Mr. WHITE. There are trucks moving in and out of a construction site all the time, bringing materials in and out.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Isn't that part of your management, that you have a receipt for these goods; you have somebody on the spot that actually is an employee of the Architect's office?

Mr. WHITE. Yes.

Mr. BENJAMIN. I would assume that person could tell whether you received that which was invoiced and certainly determine if they are also carrying something out.

Mr. WHITE. Well, receiving what was invoiced is much easier than carrying something out, especially when it is being done by in-house people, people working there on a daily basis and who perhaps are legitimately removing materials to be taken to another site or to be delivered around to the other side of the building, or something of that nature.

Mr. BENJAMIN. This job was not one that was let out to a contractor. It was an in-house job, so the supervisory personnel were used, and until somebody blew the whistle, you are telling me your own supervisory personnel didn't know anything about it.

Mr. WHITE. That is my understanding.

Mr. BENJAMIN. And even though this fellow alleges that he was building consoles for oyster boats in your carpenter shops, your people didn't know anything about it.

Mr. WHITE. Well, that is what I am told.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Yet when it came time to discharge, you discharged the temporary personnel but apparently nothing was done to your people.

Mr. WHITE. When you say my people-

Mr. BENJAMIN. I am talking about the permanent employees that provide the supervision.

Mr. WHITE. That is right; we could find no evidence; none was brought to me by either the FBI or the Capitol Police that there was any involvement of those people except neglect—that there was any criminal involvement.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Doesn't neglect border on incompetence?

Mr. WHITE. Well, I suppose one could say that, depending upon the judgment one would make in terms of an individual in his other capacities. If you have a very good supervisor, for example,

the judgmere. Well, oesn't neglect

my fudent that id shoulde, may be, things. by

who presumes honesty, let's say, on the part of the people working for me and is deceived thereby, is that neglect?

Mr. BENJAMIN. That supervisor would have to be possessed of a hearing and visual impairment not to be able to analyze that there were materials going out, particularly when you know on construction jobs that you lose track of things. Everybody knows that.

Mr. WHITE. Well, that may be, that is true; it may be that a higher standard should have been expected of him. I made the judgment that it was not neglect to the point of dismissal. Perhaps my judgment was inappropriate.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Was there any analysis of the personnel involved when you made that judgment, or was that a sweeping judgment?

Mr. WHITE. No, there was discussion, as a matter of fact, discussions that I had with the FBI concerning the supervisory personnel. Because my initial reaction was similar to yours: how can this happen without your knowing it?

Mr. BENJAMIN. Except that probably my subsequent reaction would be different than yours?

Mr. WHITE. Perhaps. It may be that my judgment was too compassionate, but I tend to be that way.

JAMES MADISON BUILDING CONTRACTS Mr. BENJAMIN. The James Madison Library Building is apparently nearing completion. Was this a fixed price contract? Mr. WHITE. Yes. Mr. BENJAMIN. What was the price of the contract? Mr. WHITE. Do you mean of the phase now under construction?

Mr. BENJAMIN. Now. Are all the contracts involved in the James Madison Building fixed contracts? Mr. WHITE. Yes.

ADDITIONAL COSTS Mr. BENJAMIN. Then if there are changes or unforeseen circumstances, then you pay extra; is that right? Mr. WHITE. That is correct.

Mr. BENJAMIN. And that is one of the dangers of doing a fixed price contract, right?

Mr. WHITE. Yes; but I am not sure you can avoid additional costs for additional work, no matter what kind of a contract you have.

Mr. BENJAMIN. The total for the initial contract, what was the total for those?

Mr. WHITE. One hundred six million eight hundred sixteen thousand and nineteen dollars.

Mr. BENJAMIN. And how much do you have in excess at this point?

Mr. WHITE. The figure I gave you includes the additional costs to date, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. BENJAMIN. What were the primary contracts for? Is this both interior and exterior?

Mr. WHITE. Yes.
Mr. BENJAMIN. It involves the total Architect's fund?
Mr. WHITE. Yes.
Mr. BENJAMIN. Does it include land acquisition?
Mr. WHITE. No.

Mr. BENJAMIN. This is just the capital improvements?

Mr. WHITE. That is right; it does not include furniture or furnishings, but it includes equipment.

Mr. BENJAMIN. The only things it does not include is the furniture and furnishings that will not be in your budget, but will be in the Librarian's budget?

Mr. WHITE. That is correct. We apparently will have to supply the detail for the record.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Supply this for the record: the primary contracts and any additions to the primary contracts and any outstanding claims you have not recognized as such and give us a projected total cost.

Mr. WHITE. We will be glad to furnish that for the record.

Mr. BENJAMIN. And for that which is in excess of the primary contract we would like an explanation of why that cost is incurred. Mr. WHITE. We will be happy to supply that. [The information follows:]


The James Madison Memorial Building is being built under the phased construction concept, four phases, of which all were fixed-price contracts awarded through the competitive, low bid process. Following is a listing of the four construction contracts, the original award amount and the final or current cost of each, which represents changes, deletions, and additions to the primary contract.

Original Current

Contract Amount Cost Phase I

Excavations and Foundations.... $ 7,239,500 $ 7,301,224

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Outstanding claims not yet recognized through the obligation of funds process, amount to approximately $3,184,689, thus they are not reflected in the afore-cited cost of Phase IV. However, they have been identified and are being reviewed and negotiated with the contractor to arrive at a proper and equitable settlement.

The estimated total cost of the James Madison Memorial Building is presently projected to require the amount authorized and appropriated, $130,675,000.

Additional costs incurred in excess of the original contract prices are attributable to such necessary changes as those requested by the Library of Congress, which in most instances were mandated by Congress, amounting to approximately $2,000,000, which result from adjustments in areas involving partitions, computer facilities, electrical services, television facilities, and other numerous miscellaneous changes. Other increases are attributable to existing building changes concerning modifications (increased scope) to the pedestrian tunnel at an estimated cost of $100,000; operation and maintenance of the heating, ventilating, and air conditioning systems in compliance with the beneficial occupancy requirement will cost an estimated $800,000; and approximately $2,400,000 is required due to changes that have resulted from job conditions, unforeseen circumstances and design deficiencies.

GAO REPORT ON THE HART BUILDING Mr. BENJAMIN. On August 14, 1978, the GAO issued a report on the Hart Building and found, amongst other things, that: (1) the estimate for interior contract was understated; (2) allowances for contingencies were understated; (3) the inclusion of "deductible alternatives” in the bid package for the interior contract was intended to increase flexibility in awarding the contract rather than to reduce scope and cost of project; (4) the Architect of the Capitol's procedures deviated from standard practices of other Federal agencies concerning selection of the architectural firm, lack of written policies and procedures and inadequate project control systems; problems with cost and time overruns have also been experienced on other Capitol Hill projects.

In relation to the Hart Building, have you done anything to correct these alleged deficiencies?

Mr. WHITE. Yes, we have.
Mr. BENJAMIN. Would you give that to us for the record?
Mr. WHITE. I will be glad to.
[The information follows:]

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