During the first two months of the 2nd quarter of fiscal 79, an approximate total of $816,371 was expended, of which $723,187 was used almost entirely due to the American Agricultural Movement (Farmers Group).

Expenditures for Calendar Year 1978, for U.S. Capitol Police personnel on the House roll were approximately $1,312,291, averaging roughly $110,000 per month. Based upon this calculation, approximately $1,000,000 of supplemental funds will be needed for the remainder of fiscal 79. We shall attempt to absorb the money expended for food from within our allocated operational funds for Fiscal Year 1979. Although we feel that we would be derelict in our responsibility to request any lesser amount, every effort will be made to reduce overtime as appears consistent with our commitment for adequate security.

NO MORE PROMOTIONS OF METROPOLITAN POLICE OFFICERS

Mr. BENJAMIN. I would also want to find out if it is perfectly clear now that we will have no more promotions of the Metropolitan Police assigned to the Capitol Police. Is that clear with the police and the Police Board?

Mr. HARDING. Other than those which are contemplated-you are talking over and above those which are referred to in the Chief's-

Mr. BENJAMIN. Other than the six-three from the Senate and three from the House.

Chief POWELL. I don't have, myself, any recommendations.
Mr. HARDING. I don't know of any.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Let me inquire along this line: You indicated that we would phase out the Metropolitan Police, and I believe the number is approximately 29?

Chief POWELL. Yes, sir, I had in mind, Mr. Chairman, my recommendation would be that as these people reach retirement age, which in some cases is not too far away, that they simply not be replaced by Metropolitan; that they either be replaced by regular-

Mr. BENJAMIN. I would understand that has been the practice. Chief POWELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. But basically what I am inquiring of, as you indicated to Mr. Rudd, as they retired they would not be replaced. Chief POWELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. What if they resign because of inability to get promotion? Would they be replaced?

Chief POWELL. Not by Metropolitan men, I don't believe, under the present practice.

Mr. BENJAMIN. I think we better make sure we have an understanding that they are not to be replaced by Metropolitan Police, that this subcommittee does not want to continue to pay $44,000 per police officer just because he comes from the Metropolitan Police.

Chief POWELL. Yes, sir. Of course, that police officer, I am sure you are aware, he doesn't get the $44,000. That figure is brought about by this overhead of $480,000 for the total group. In other words, his salary is somewhat in line; maybe in some cases even less than comparable ranks with what the Capitol Police might be drawing.

Mr. BENJAMIN. If I understand by Mr. Rudd's questioning, and I believe he will amplify on it in his written inquiry, that a good part of this is the surcharge.

Chief POWELL. Yes, sir, but the officer doesn't get that. The surcharge goes only to the District Government.

Mr. BENJAMIN. I understand that. But I want to make sure we are perfectly clear that there is not going to be any further promotion of the Metropolitan Police assigned to the Capitol Police, and that means if there is disagreement, then those people may be returned to the Metropolitan Police.

Do we have that understanding, and is that the understanding of the Capitol Police Board?

Mr. HARDING. Do we have to go that strong in the recommendation, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. BENJAMIN. Mr. Shipley started this, and, of course, as we look back in the hearings, we have been discussing the same point at least for the last four years. I have never been approached by so many Members of the House, individually and as a group, questioning the controversy about the recent promotions, temporary, now about to become permanent. Also, these members want an assurance that there is no further promotion within the Metropolitan Police. They feel that we have paid for a Capitol Police Force, it is a large force, and we send them to school. They feel there is some degree of sinecure in the officers of the Metropolitan Police, that there is an element that would be appropriately described elsewhere as a clique. On the other hand, the regular members of the Capitol Force have come on pursuant to your nonpartisan merittype application process and deserve to be recognized for their abilities and their time and grade.

ATTENTION OF CAPITOL POLICE BOARD

Mr. HARDING. If I might say for the record, Mr. Chairman, it has been the attitude of the Capitol Police Board, certainly since I have been a member, and even before, when I sat in as the assistant Sergeant at Arms, that our desire was-in fact, I am on record within their minutes many, many times, of doing just exactly what you say.

Over the years, however, I have had that tempered a little bit, my own attitude, by a realization that many times I don't think it would be in the best interest of the Capitol Police force to arbitrarily make this decision. I would work towards that goal. I can assure you I will make every effort to work towards that goal, because it has been my own goal all along, but I do not think it would be in the best interest of the Capitol Police, and I am saying this as a member of the board, plus the fact, remember, we only control onehalf of the Capitol Police; the other side is the Senate, and you are going to find some Members who are on Senate detail, getting a promotion, and the fellow on the House detail being left out apparently because of this decision.

I cannot speak for the Senate, but I will bring this up, if I may, at the Capitol Police Board meeting tomorrow morning.

Mr. BENJAMIN. If we can't get those assurances, I would feel compelled to take to the House Chamber a statutory provision within the framework of the Appropriations Act, indicating that the Metropolitan Police will heretofore be released and that the Capitol Police will be run by the Capitol Police.

Mr. HARDING. Frankly, I don't think that would be necessary. This being the subcommittee's desire, I will carry it out, of course. I am only bringing to your attention that I can only speak for the House of Representatives side on the Capitol Police Board, but what Mr. White and Mr. Hoffmann decide, they can outvote me on the thing as far as the board goes.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Would you be kind enough to take this up with the board? I think you understand the position. It has been the position of the committee before I was on this committee; I think the record will bear that out very clearly, to see if we can get a decision of the board which then, to me, would bind the House and Senate, and if that would be the case, we can proceed to it.

Mr. HARDING. I would like to see language in there at the earliest practical date for something of that kind.

Mr. BENJAMIN. We thought we had language in last year that said, in essence—

Mr. HARDING. We are saying in the report here, in the Clerk's statement, the amount of money going to the District of Columbia has been reduced $124,000 in the last year, reflecting this drop.

PARITY BETWEEN HOUSE AND SENATE

Mr. BENJAMIN. I don't think that is the overall question. The question also involves the degree of morale and the contacts that are made with every member of the House, and it is not just the Democrat side. It is not either side; it is a combination of House contentions; you have heard a couple of them expressed this morning. They felt that the committee report last year would be sufficient, but obviously there was a question about Senate action and House action.

We felt that we would want parity, but I can see what will happen if we don't have this in law, or at least an action of the Police Board. What is going to happen then basically is there is going to be a massive exodus to get on the Senate side, where promotions may be assured, and the House side then will be staring at what it was at the latter part of the last fiscal year.

Mr. HARDING. I might say, Mr. Chairman, on that score it has been my goal that we have one Capitol Police Force. I am so sick and tired of hearing Senate rules and House rules, and one rule for withdrawing from the retirement fund for one, and something else for the other. I think it is a terrible mistake. I think we all suffer because of it. I would like to see legislation that would make it one police force one day.

Mr. BENJAMIN. I assume it is one police force, but the difficulty, if I may speak personally, is that we have a Sergeant at Arms in the House and a Sergeant at Arms in the Senate that do not necessarily agree.

Mr. HARDING. I understand, Mr. Chairman. However, we have a pretty good working arrangement now.

I will convey this message, making it as strong as I can present it, that this is what we are faced with. As I say, from a personal feeling in the interest of the Capitol Police Force and the morale of some very, very efficient officers who have come up through the Metropolitan Police Department, without whom we would not be as

effective a force as we are today, I think we are doing ourselves— perhaps we are cutting off our nose to spite our face, to use a phrase, a little bit in this, and I am not so sure that some of the individuals who have been conveying this message-I am not speaking of the Members-haven't been more interested in their welfare than the welfare of the Capitol Police.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Generally that is the case. Usually you advocate your own interest first.

Mr. HARDING. Yes, and they have access to the Members.

Chief POWELL. Unfortunately, some of those advocates are probably some of our lesser qualified men. We have some fine officers, and I am real proud of them. I wouldn't swap the man-for-man Capitol Police Force for a similar number from Metropolitan. I think we have gone that far, and it is just that we have tied in with the system a sprinkling of people so when we have some citywide situation develop, where we need to go to the Metropolitan to find out, or we have mass arrests, and we book our prisoners at their booking facilities, and they have the jails and the courts, being a larger and a city-wide organization, the little sprinkling of our people here are more familiar with that whole process, and regardless of our training and everything, if our people are not exposed to this regularly-it just makes it a little smoother, but I am apologetic that there is even tension.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Apparently there is, and apparently this would probably develop in any situation where you have a transition.

SUGGESTED ABSORPTION OF METROPOLITAN POLICE

Mr. HARDING. Mr. Chairman, may I make a suggestion as for an alternative we have discussed in the board several times, because this problem is not new, believe me, and that suggestion was that those members of the Metropolitan Police who are totally under control of the Chief and our system, they do not report downtown, or anything like that, that there be a lateral transfer right across, the board, where they would become part of the Capitol Police Force, subject to all promotion rules and regulations; they would no longer, in any way, be affiliated in the Metropolitan Police; they would be members of the Capitol Police, maintaining their position, competing with all other members of the Capitol Police for advancement, if the opportunity presented itself?

Mr. BENJAMIN. Why don't you discuss that with Mr. Annunzio and find out what his subcommittee's reaction is to it, and we will be glad to look into it.

Mr. HARDING. And, as I say, this is not a new subject. I don't want to see capable officers who have served the Capitol Police, albeit Metropolitan Police, for many years, almost literally punished because of an attitude or problem which has come up. I don't think it is being fair to those people, plus the fact I don't think it is going to really help the efficiency of the Capitol Police.

In time, as I mentioned, I want to get rid of the Metropolitan Police on the Capitol Police Force, but I want to do it in a way which will not impair in any way the effectiveness of the Capitol Police Force. I think that is my responsibility as Sergeant at Arms.

LISTING OF METROPOLITAN POLICE OFFICERS

Mr. BENJAMIN. I am asking that you do take your proposal up with Mr. Annunzio and report it back, and I also ask that you give us, as you have in the past for the record, a listing of the Metropolitan Police assigned to the Capitol Police, the date of the assignment of the Capitol Police, the rank and other data you have previously supplied us.

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