Government can not construct Glen Canyon Reservoir without the consent of Utah and Arizona. We know that the Federal Government can not build Boulder Canyon dam or Bridge Canyon dam without the consent of Arizona.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. I wish to observe that I do not know that. Senator ASHURST. Then I know more than you do upon that one point, but upon that one point only.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. And I contest it, and I deny it as a legal proposition.

The CHAIRMAN. We will argue that out in executive session. Senator JOHNSON. May I ask the Senator what royalty Arizona wishes to charge?

Senator ASHURST. It will be a royalty commensurate with the services rendered and power furnished, and will be-that word which is being misunderstood in this committee-reasonable.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Mr. Chairman, may I ask you whether the provisions of the enabling act by which Arizona, the baby State, was admitted into the glorious Union is in the record now?

The CHAIRMAN. I think not, Senator Shortridge.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Or the provisions in her State constitution relating to the water rights in her State?

The CHAIRMAN. It is not in the record, but it is accessible in the library.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Soonor or later, with your permission, I will ask to have incorporated in the record the various provisions of the enabling act and the State constitution of the splendid State of Arizona.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well, Senator.

Senator ASHURST. I have no objection to that.

Governor DERN. May I amplify my reply to Senator Shortridge's question a moment ago by saying that Utah ratified the six-State compact before California did, and then California attached reservations to her act.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Yes; that is so.

Senator ASHURST. I want to make one more observation, and I am not oversensitive. Now, regarding the "baby State," I do not feel any offense at that, because infants can cry lustily upon occasion, unless you give them soothing sirup. But it does not contribute to my equanimity or peace of mind to have things happen such as happened yesterday. The Gila River was referred to yesterday by a gentleman whom I esteem highly, a man concerning whom-if I have any sentiment at all, it is a sentiment of envy that I do not possess the information that he does about the Colorado River. I refer to Mr. Carpenter, who himself referred to the Gila River as rising in New Mexico. Our students in the primary division, who are beginning the study of geography, know that it is an Arizona River. Of course, New Mexico furnishes some water to the Gila River.

The CHAIRMAN. There seems to be some division of thought on that. We will consult the geography.

Senator ASHURST. I wish those who assume to speak upon the subject would consult the geography before they speak rather than after. Of the Gila River, Arizona supplies about 2,600,000 acrefeet annually.

The CHAIRMAN. Governor Dern, have you concluded your statement?

Governor DERN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee deeply appreciates the splendid presentation you have made. Have you any further witnesses to offer on behalf of Utah?

Governor DERN. Our Colorado River water commissioner, Mr. W. R. Wallace, is here.

The CHAIRMAN. He was here, and he told the chairman that he did not care to make a statement.

Governor DERN. Then we have nobody else.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee is very much obliged to you, Governor.

Senator KING. May I have the committee's attention for a moment, Mr. Chairman? In connection with Utah's presentation of this matter I ask the committee to give the Utah delegation in Congress an opportunity to file a written statement, or if they prefer, at such time as will suit the convenience of the committee to make brief statements before the committee relative to Utah's position. The CHAIRMAN. Senator King, we want to oblige everyone. We hope to conclude the hearings to-morrow, and if not then, Saturday, if possible. If it will be just as agreeable to you and Senator Smoot to submit a statement it would oblige the committee. Of course, if you feel that you would prefer to address the committee we will name some day next week.

Senator KING. There are also Congressman Leatherwood and Congressman Colton. If there is a written statement prepared, of course, they will participate in the statement.

Representative LEATHERWOOD. That is entirely agreeable. We have already consulted about that.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well. Thank you, Mr. Leatherwood.

AFTER RECESS

The committee resumed its session December 18, at 4 o'clock p. m., pursuant to the taking of recess.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will resume its hearing. Mr. Bull, will you occupy the seat at the head of the table? And will you give the committee your name, address, and your connection with the State of Colorado?

STATEMENT OF GEORGE N. BULL, CONSULTING ENGINEER, FOR ADDITIONAL WATER SUPPLY FOR THE CITY OF DENVER, DENVER, COLO.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Bull, are you a civil engineer?

Mr. BULL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What years of experience have you had?

Mr. BULL. I. have been in active practice in my profession since 1897, and have been located in Denver since 1906.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you built any dams or reclamation works of any kind, or power plants?

Mr. BULL. I have done a great deal of work in the way of irrigation construction and have designed a great many dams, both in the

East and out in the West. I have not done so much work in power

development.

The CHAIRMAN. You are here at the instruction of the Governor of Colorado?

Mr. BULL. No; I am here to represent the city of Denver, at the request of the mayor.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well, Mr. Bull. You may proceed.

Mr. BULL. Denver is deeply interested in the development of the Colorado River, and especially due to the fact that it needs a certain small supply of the headwaters for a transmountain diversion in order that it may have the necessary water to grow and expand.

Denver, of course, started with no population or wealth in 1858. The population in 1910 was 213,000, and in 1925 was 311,000. The assessed valuation of Denver in 1910 was $355,000,000, and in 1925, $405,000,000. The bank clearings in 1910 were $493,500,000, and in 1925, $1,000,650,000.

Denver is in a locality of very little water supply. The total annual yield of water available for Denver and the immediate vicinity for irrigation is only about 500,000 acre-feet per year. The development of this supply commenced in the early sixties, and by the end of the last century all of the water available for direct use for irrigation and civic supply was developed. At that time the city had about 50,000 acre-feet of water for municipal purposes, and the remainder of the direct flow was used in irrigating about 200,000 acres of land.

It became very apparent at the beginning of this century to the owners of the then private water plant serving the city that something must be done to safeguard Denver's future water supply, and a construction was made of a reservoir in the upper reaches of the Platte River that at that time was of rather huge dimensions. It had a capacity of about 800,000 acre-feet.

It was then felt that the city's future water supply was reasonably safeguarded, but an unusual development occurred along the Platte River which has greatly modified the situation in regard to the future water supply.

About the beginning of this century irrigation securities became a very popular avenue of investment, and as you all know, many irrigation projects were developed throughout the West. In the vicinity of Denver something over $12,000,000 was spent in the construction of canals and reservoirs for the development of lands for flood water in the vicinity of Denver. Some 300,000 acres were put under irrigation. Neither the city nor the water company had any control over this development. The water supply was totally inadequate for such a large additional amount of land under irrigation, and the water supply that the city had developed in storage, through Lake Cheeseman, was used to a great extent in supplying these additional lands.

Improvements were developed, and these lands were placed in a more or less going condition. The result has been that at the present time Denver is faced with the situaiton of having utilized practically all of the water that is developed by direct flow and by storage that is available without actually depriving the lands in its immediate vicinity of water, which the city may have a right to but which,

nevertheless, can not be taken away without returning many lands to an arid state.

This was realized by the city authorities as soon as they purchased the water plant several years ago, and an exhustive examination was made as to the possibilities of securing additional water from the South Platte and its tributaries themselves. It was found that these streams had been so over developed that even with the construction of huge reservoirs not over 20,000 acre-feet of water additional could be obtained, and that only from floods that occurred in years of great flood run-off.

A thorough investigation was then made of all possible ways of obtaining additional water supply, and it was found that the only source lay at the headwaters of the Colorado. There, along the Continental Divide, just to the west of Denver are three tributaries, known as the Blue River, the Williams Fork, and the Frazier River. Owing to the topography of that country it is not possible to secure water from these sources at a low elevation. On the Blue River (Colorado River slope) it has been found that about 125 square miles of drainage area can be diverted to the eastern slope by a tunnel, with a total amount of water available of about 150,000 acre-feet.

On the Williams Fork a diversion at an elevation of 12,300 feet would develop about 314,000 acre-feet more. On the Frazier River, a river farther to the north, which could be developed at an elevation of about 9,300 feet, there could be made available 100,000 acre-feet.

The city has been active in investigating the several projects. The first project from which water will be obtained will be the Frazier. There the Moffett Tunnel Commission has under construction to-day a railroad tunnel at the proper elevation to take water through the canal surveyed to the city. Beside that is a pilot tunnel which is being used in driving the main railroad tunnel, which will then be lined and water brought through the pilot tunnel to the eastern slope.

Senator PHIPPS. Pardon me one moment, Mr. Bull. You have given us the elevation at which the diversion will be made from the Williams and the Frazier, but have you given the figure for diversion from the Blue?

Mr. BULL. The Blue River development is at an elevation of 9,500 feet.

The important things for this committee to consider in this matter are: First, that it is the only source of additional supply for the city of Denver. If the city is to grow and have the population and financial strength that its location gives it, it must have this water supply.

The second thing to consider is this, that the amount of water that can be obtained is not based upon the amount of money that the city may spend or its desirability for water, but it is strictly limited by the topography of the country, which makes it impossible to go below certain elevations to obtain water. Some 250,000 acre-feet is all that the city of Denver could possibly get from these various

sources.

Senator PHIPPS. At that point-if you will pardon the interruption-what is the expectation of the authorities of Denver as to rapid increase in population upon the completion of the Moffett

Tunnel and the connecting line that would put Denver on a transcontinental route?

Mr. BULL. The best authorities that I have interviewed on this subject quite an extensive investigation was made by a board of engineers for the city of Denver and they showed that the rational growth of Denver should show at the end of this century a population of a million.

The last important feature of this situation is this: It is impossible for the city of Denver to develop all of these projects at once. Regardless of the amount of money that might be available or the desirability of the city to do this work, it must bring the water into use slowly, because it can not send into the Platte Valley large quantities of water, more than it can consume rationally and put it in such positions for temporary use that it does not retain the control of the water. For that reason it will take at least 25 or 30 years before all of this water could be developed. It is therefore necessary that whatever is done in the development of the Colorado River, if Denver is to secure this supply, it must be safeguarded in carrying on the development slowly and in such a way that it will be economic and efficient.

I believe, gentlemen, that gives you the whole story, unless you have some questions to ask.

Senator JOHNSON. How long a time would it take to develop this, did you say?

Mr. BULL. I believe it would take at least 25 years before the last of that water could be brought in.

Senator JOHNSON. Denver, by reason of her progress, growth, and prosperity, needs assistance in getting an additional water supply?

Mr. BULL. It is essential.

Senator JOHNSON. And you have gone to the sources that you have indicated in order that the supply may be obtained?

Mr. BULL. Yes; it is the only place we can get it.

Senator JOHNSON. I wish we could aid you. We would do everything in our power to help you if it were possible. Now, you are going to obtain that water supply by virtue of tunnels, are you? Mr. BULL. Yes, sir.

Senator JOHNSON. And the distance of the particular supply from the point to be supplied is about what, if you please?

Mr. BULL. Do you mean the length of the tunnels?

Senator JOHNSON. I would say the length of the transmission of the water. How far will you transmit the water?

Mr. BULL. In the Frazier River development there will be about 30 miles of canal and 6 miles of tunnel; on the Williams Fork, 18 miles of canal and 3 miles of tunnel; on the Blue, about 25 miles of canal and about 111⁄2 miles of tunnel.

Senator JOHNSON. Is the last one that you named what you call the Moffett Tunnel?

Mr. BULL. No: that is the Frazier.

Senator JOHNSON. And you desire to proceed, I assume, at your convenience and as reasonably rapidly as possible with your development?

Mr. BULL. From the Frazier source; yes. That is the one where the tunnel is now partly driven by the Moffett Tunnel Commission.