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Johnson bill, that it was going to pass and that they were going to get all these benefits without taking Arizona into consideration, I think if that feature was eliminated and they knew that the SwingJohnson bill was not going to pass we would not have any trouble in working out an agreement with California and Nevada. That is my opinion.
Senator KENDRICK. Assuming then that it was proposed to proceed with the Swing-Johnson bill
Mr. REID. Yes.
Senator KENDRICK. Is it your opinion that the people of Arizona would be agreeable to that plan in case a previous arrangement was entered into as to a division of this water and other conditions that you have named?
Mr. Reid. I think it would be very acceptable to the State of Arizona if some such provision as that could be written in the bill wherein the State of Arizona's rights could be protected now and in the future.
Senator Johnson. If the dam were erected in the State of Ari. zona is it your view that all the power should be allotted to Arizona ?
Mr. Reid. Senator, I feel that all the power which is wholly within Arizona and can be developed in Arizona should belong to Arizona. Let us work it out ourselves.
Senator Johnson. I am fully in accord with you in trying to work this thing out, but I wanted to get your viewpoint for the record, if I may. But if a dam were erected in Arizona your viewpoint is that all the power should be allotted to Arizona, is it not?
Mr. Reid. Yes, sir; and I think Arizona should pay the bill and then sell the power on the market where we can find it.
The CHAIRMAN. You mean now, that Arizona should advance the money to construct the dam to furnish the power?
Mr. Reid. Senator, we don't need to put up one dollar. We can finance this whole thing on California's needs. They have got to have the water and they have got to have the power.
Senator Johnson. I am very much obliged to you, Mr. Reid, for making a perfectly frank statement, and we are beginning to understand-I certainly better than I have understood before—the situation.
Mr. Reid. As I see it, if I might explain to the committee, the needs of California for a domestic water supply to supplement their irrigation supply on the coast is so great that they have got to make some move.
Now it isn't a prohibitive development. The costs are entirely feasible and away below the costs of other municipal supplies on the Pacific coast. Oakland's water supply, for instance, cost about ten times what the proposed supply for Los Angeles will cost.
Senator JOHNSON. The method would be that California would supply the capital to build the dam, supply all the money, and all the power would be allotted to Arizona ? Mr. REID. Not necessarily. If California was interested in this
Reid dami site her proportion of the power would be left to her. If Nevada was interested it could be left to Nevada, and could be disposed of to California at a price which would give them cheap power.
Senator Jonsson. That is, you are now speaking of locations? Mr. Reid. I am speaking of development.
Senator Johnsox. But given your development, the power in its allotment would follow the location of the particular works?
Mr. REID. Yes.
Senator KENDRICK. Well, Mr. Reid, assuming that the Boulder Canyon Dam site were selected; that, I believe, is in the State of Nevada, is it not?
Mr. REID. Yes, sir.
Senator KENDRICK. In the event the dam was built at Government expense, you would not contend that Arizona should participate in the ownership of the power, would you?
Mr. Reid. Well, Senator, I don't assume that the Government is going to make any appropriation to the benefit of the State of Arizona and the State of Nevada which they are not going to ask us to pay back with interest. Now, whether we borrow this money from the Government or whether we go out in outside sources and borrow it, as long as we pay it back we feel like we had some ownership in there.
Senator KENDRICK. Well, supposing that the Government did build the dam in the interest of flood control, and it happened that the dam site was located in the State of Nevada, then in that event your State of Arizona would only be interested in a division of the waters and not of the power?
Mr. Reid. And the power. We feel like that power is one of our natural resources, Senator, and we should avail ourselves of it in the future.
The CHAIRMAX. Mr. Reid, I understand that if the Government should advance the money for the construction of a dam at Boulder Canyon, which is between Arizona and Nevada, I understand
Mr. REID. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAX. That Arizona would be entitled to 50 per cent of the power and Nevada 50 per cent of the power.
Mr. Reid. Well, Nevada and California might divide it to suit themselves. If we had our 50 per cent, we would not object to how they divided theirs. The CHAIRMAN. Hasn't California any rights under your theory? Mr. REID. Not in that dam site.
The ChairMAN. If the Government builds the dam, advances the morey, and half of it rests against the banks of Nevada and half of it rests against the banks of Arizona, is it your contention that Arizona would have 50 per cent of the power that is developed and Nevada 50 per cent?
Mr. REID. I think that would be the logical conclusion, as the ownership is 50 per cent in each of those States.
Senator KENDRICK. But in that event, as I understand you, you contend that Arizona should be required to pay one-half of the cost of the dam?
Mr. Reid. That depending. Senator. I think the cost of that structure should be based on the benefits received.
Now, California is going to get a great deal of benefit out of any structure that is built in that river. It is going to get flood protection and it is going to get regulated water supply for some 600,000 acres of land. It is going to get a water supply of some 200,000 second-feet for its cities and its coastal countries. California is going to secure a great many benefits out of it and certainly should be assessed some of the construction costs. I think the construction costs should be divided in proportion to the benefits received.
Senator KENDRICK. Well, supposing the dam after completion belonged equally to Arizona and to Nevada, and the Government expended the money and required each of those two States to return the amount invested ?
Mr. Reid. Then they should be entitled to all the power.
Senator KENDRICK. Then would you not consider that the State of California met all of the requirements by paying for the privilege that she enjoyed in the way of a certain ratio or proportion of the power!
Mr. Reid. That is what I said about working out an agreement, Senator. I think an agreement could be very easily worked out with California. We think that if this Swing-Johnson bill was out of the way these two States would get together.
Senator KENDRICK. Nevada and Arizona would simply, according to that agreement, sell to California, as any other company, the power she used?
Mr. REID. Exactly.
Senator SHORTRIDGE. Also the water, too; California would have to pay you for the water?
Nr. Reid. No; the State of California has appropriated about 100,000 second-feet of the Colorado River right now, and they are putting practically all of it to beneficial use, the normal flow of the river at present. I don't think that anybody expects to disturb those water rights which California has enjoyed.
Senator SHORTRIDGE. What would we have to do for any additional water?
Mr. Reid. I should think you would have to pay your proportion for any additional water developed which you use for your benefit.
Senator SHORTRIDGE. Pav to whom?
Mr. Reid. Pay to the fund-to the Government, if it built it, or whoever put up the money, or a joint development where each contributed their proportionate part.
Senator Johnson. Just for my own information, is the view you express generally the view of your people?
Mr. REID. I don't know as to the view of the people. I have been working on this thing for some time and have given it a great deal of thought and study, and it seems to be the general feeling that the costs should be assessed according to the benefits, and that the benefits should be divided in accordance with the location of these dam sites. I think that generally is the sentiment here.
Now as to the details, they haven't gotten down to details, as to where they are going to build the dam or how they are going to divert this water. That is a question that can be settled after they get some place to start from. They should have some agreement. If they got an agreement which would be satisfactory to those three States, why, then we have got some place to start from to locate the dam.
Senator SHORTRIDGE. Mr. Reid, do you think that in an act providing for the building of a dam, say at Boulder Canyon, a proviso
could be inserted protecting the after-acquired rights of all the
Mr. Reid. The after-acquired rights?
Senator SHORTRIDGE. You probably don't grasp the full meaning
” Senator SHORTRIDGE. Could it be provided in the act itself that the rights of all the States above the dam, the rights of all of the upper-basin States, rights by them hereafter to be exercised, say, 100 or 50, or 20 years hereafter, or rights to be acquired by usage—could these present or after acquired rights be reserved to the upper-basin States, so that people taking or acquiring rights as of now, or upon the completion of the dam, would take those rights subject to the reserved rights of the upper States?
Mr. Reid. I think the only way in the world you could finance a project like that, Senator, would be for the Government to put up all the money and give the lower-basin States all the profits. You could not finance it any other way and predicate it on a theory of that kind.
Senator SHORTRIDGE. Very well. I don't wish to pursue the matter further.
The CHAIRMAX. Thank you, Mr. Reid, very much. Is Mr. Frank
STATE OF ARIZONA, PHOENIX Mr. Trott. I am at present State water commissioner and have held that office about four months. I am an engineer by profession, having practiced my profession off and on for 42 years. I am a registered civil engineer and president of the Arizona division of the American Society of Engineers.
What I wanted to say to you gentlemen can be briefly said. Mr. La Rue has included in his report a map of the Parker-Gila project. That map shows the diversion of the water at a dam that is proposed to be built 514 miles above Parker.
Senator SHORTRIDGE. What county?
Mr. Trott. It is in the county of Yuma. I believe it is in Yuma County.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir; it is in Yuma County. Mr. Trott. And the dam site has been filed on by three different parties. The State of Arizona, through its board of directors, has filed upon that dam site both for power and for irrigation. I do not wish to enter into a discussion of this proposition, but I simply desire to give you some data relating to that and to some other matters.
The CHAIRMAN. Well, the Parker-Gila project, is that involved in the development of the Colorado River?
Mr. Trotr. It follows this. An appropriation was made at the last session of the legislature that the State of Arizona would expend
$50,000, $25,000 annually, if that amount of money was matched by the United States Geological Survey or any other branch of the Federal Government. That appropriation has been made and matched by the Federal Government, and the Director of the Geological Survey is working now with the State of Arizona through the State water commissioner to survey—are you following me? Am I disturbing you in any way by this statement I am making?
The CHAIRMAX. Oh, no; I am making a note here. Go ahead. That record is verymuch more important than I am.
Mr. Trott. Well, then, I want the record clear that we are working in harmony with the Geological Survey to survey a certain area of land in the State of Arizona and to find out the topographical features of that land as to whether or not it is suitable for irrigation under the appropriation for the waters of the Colorado River that the State Legislature of Arizona appropriated to be expended in
Now, we are spending a larger portion of that money under what might be termed the Parker-Gila project. That project comes under the Boulder Canyon Dam. But the agreement we entered into was that we might make surveys from the Bridge Canyon Dam: also at the end of a tunnel that might lead from Bridge Canyon Dam in that area, and later under another agreement which embodied another clause—another clause was embodied in that agreement to the effect that we might change, if we found upon field investigations the physical conditions were not suitable for irrigation, to other areas, quadrangles, to be surveyed in that region.
Now, we are carrying on that work, that survey. This map that I have here shows what we are doing there, and I would like to file that as a part of a statement, not coming from me as an engineer, but from the State water commissioner, to inform your committee that we are trying to spend the money that has been appropriate for this purpose without prejudice to any section of the State of Arizona and without prejudice to the Boulder Canyon Dam. We, as engineers, are trying to get the best results for the State of Arizona under areas that may be irrigated by these waters, whether they come from the Boulder Canyon or the Bridge Canyon, and I want to give this to you gentlemen as information.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, Mr. Trott, the committee appreciates your attitude. Is Mr. Anson H. Smith present?
Senator ASHURST. Mr. Chairman, I ask that he be granted 15 minutes in view of the fact that he has come so far.
The CHAIRMAN. Well, that, of course, is not as important as the message he brings. You proceed along, Mr. Smith, and we will see what we can do.
STATEMENT OF ANSON H. SMITH, EDITOR AND PUBLISHER OF
THE MOHAVE COUNTY MINER, KINGMAN, ARIZ. Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, my name is Anson H. Smith. I am a newspaper man and I live in Kingman, Ariz. I have lived in Arizona close to 50 years.
When I came to Arizona our friend, William Mulholland, was a mate on a river steamer, and I presume Mr. Mulholland knows more about the Colorado River than any of the engineers that ever ap