bigger than an automobile contract-and all the judgment a man needs to exercise in reading that little compact is just the common sense he would use in any ordinary deal-they saw the danger that it contained to Arizona's rights. Any man, when he reads that small instrument, will discern without any doubt that Arizona, with over half the drainage area and over 90 per cent of the power, would be divested of her rights by that compact.

The CHAIRMAN. Pardon me; did Arizona have representation at the time of this conference?

Mr. COLTER. Yes; but very poor representation-very poor. And no man, as I said awhile ago, could do aught but object to such a thing.

It caused alarm among those people who had gone through irrigation experience in the State of Arizona. I will say that I myself have spent millions and millions of dollars in development of reclamation projects in the State of Arizona, and I claim to be qualified on those things from a practical standpoint. I spent years of my time and a fortune in trying to see that this Colorado situation was developed not only for Arizona but for the whole Nation in its maximum way.

I have heard some one asking about a map. I have here a map that was drawn when this matter first started, because at that time. we had no fight with any other State. We naturally relied on the law of prior appropriation. We never attempted to take anything away from any other State. We provided a gravity canal going into California. We have tried to work out a plan so that we would not in any respect injure the small amount of equity that the upper basin has in the Colorado River, because they have only got a small drainage up there; and if we gave them every drop of water, which we propose to do, that they could use beneficially and economically, according to law, it would be but a small portion of it. The most of it would come back in the river, and we could use that. We have no alarm there. Naturally we have no alarm there if we depend upon the law of prior appropriation. We are willing to do that, and that is conceding a great deal. They have only a small drainage area, as I have said.

Naturally California, as has been expressed, is much interested and has proposed certain things like the Boulder Canyon Dam that were uneconomical to the development of the Colorado River. We wanted to propose a plan that would serve all concerned, and we knew that the flood matter was a question that is used mostly for camouflage-naturally you can get by with things under cover, under patriotism, under somebody's suffering, easier than you can in any other way-because we can conserve the flood-control proposition and get the maximum development of the river. You know also, gentlemen, that if you in good faith want to conserve flood control, for the last century we have had absolute specific avenues by which we can get flood protection. We don't have to tie it up with irrigation or with power and those mediums. The Government has appropriated money and is willing to provide avenues by which it may appropriate for flood protection alone. That is the way it should be solved. No dam of any size should ever be put in the

Colorado River, whether it is at Boulder Canyon or another place, and tie it up with irrigation or with power.

The CHAIRMAN. You think the Government, under the flood control act, should appropriate money to strengthen the dikes, and increase their capacity?

Mr. COLTER. I think that, as they have in all river systems, they should provide for flood control.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I am asking you-you are a man of considerable experience-if that is what you would do.

Mr. COLTER. I would, knowing what I know, that the Government has done in the past in the way of providing flood control avenues, and providing the money necessary for such purpose. And especially in view of the fact that you tie up flood control with power, not with irrigation, but with power, anywhere, whether it is in our own dams, whether we build our own dams or otherwise.

To show you we have been consistent, we have made our biggest fight in the State of Arizona, not against the people on the outside, but against the people on the inside, like the Diamond Creek, which is a power dam, like the Bridge Canyon, when they tried to bring power down from there, whether the State builds it, or whether the Government builds it. If you build a power dam in the State of Arizona or any other place they could control the market. How are you going to keep up your priority under the laws of appropriation? Now, especially in view of the fact that the canyon is a peculiar gorge, as you all know, and one little power project, whether it is built by the Government or by the State, will get a key to the 600,000,000 horsepower, or 4,000,000, whatever it may be, that will control the market, and you can not keep up your priorities. That is dangerous anywhere. If you put a dam lower down, like the Boulder Canyon is, it has a double disadvantage.

Senator DILL. How long will the control dam be in filling up with silt?

Mr. COLTER. I don't know as I can say how long, but it will be many scores of years before it will. And every flood control dam that is being proposed is a dam somewhere and there is not much difference.

Senator DILL. Yes, you say it will cost a small amount of money to build a flood control dam and it need not be very high. The question comes to my mind how long will it take it to become filled up with silt?

Mr. COLTER. Well, practically all the rivers have been filled up with silt, and they have got to raise their levees, as they go along. Senator DILL. You have no figures on that?

Mr. COLTER. No. I know that from a practical standpoint that a river as it fills up-

Senator DILL. Then isn't it the part of wisdom for the Government in building a flood control dam to build one big enough that it will last for a long time, even if it has power and irrigation in it?

Mr. COLTER. I agree with you, Senator, provided in such a development, peculiar as the canyon will be, that you will tie irrigation with it so that you will not destroy millions of acres of land in Arizona and the economical development of the river, because there would not be one-twentieth of the loss from all the floods in the

Yuma Valley and the Imperial Valley as would result from the making of desert waste of millions of acres of land in the United States of America. And that is what the people haven't considered. We want the river developed as a whole. Because of its peculiar situation, it is different than most of the rivers. If you will realize, most of the rivers run down without any very large, deep canyons. Private capital of small amounts can take it out by means of ditches in many different places, and it develops more naturally. But there is a peculiar situation in Arizona on account of the Grand Canyon, where any dam, if irrigation is not provided for, whether it be a flood control dam or otherwise, or whether it is built by the State or otherwise, would destroy the maximum development of the river, give the water to Mexico and leave Arizona entirely out of the picture.

Arizona is a young State, and she wants to depend, as the individual does, as every one of the 48 States wants to depend, upon that Constitution that guarantees protection to the weak, guarantees a young State in its future growth, and only that which brings maximum development. She wants that protection. This little group of far-sighted men, with the assistance of the governor, has been laboring night and day to try and see this matter accomplished.

If you will pardon me, gentlemen, I could not be true to myself; I could not be true to you; I could not be true to my State; I could not be true to this Nation if I failed now to express some of the things that are in my heart. I do not mean it with any ill feeling. I don't mean it with any ill feeling to you.

The CHAIRMAN. We appreciate that. Make your statement.

Mr. COLTER. But I know some of the best men in the State of Arizona and the Nation have been misled on this situation-some of our most prominent statesmen, some of our best engineers. I believe that there has never been in the history of the United Statesand remember there are a great many conspiracies going on now-you know that Fall is the "daddy" of this compact. You know that Arthur P. Davis was deposed and criticized. You know that many other conspiracies have been going on over the Nation——

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Colter, may we not omit conspiracies? We have enough right on this problem without getting into this difficult subject. Just state plainly what you want to advise the committee with regard to our investigation.

Mr. COLTER. Well, I want to give you

The CHAIRMAN. Well, now, listen, that has nothing to do with it— the conspiracy proposition. There are many things to consider without getting into this matter of conspiracies.

Mr. COLTER. Well, I think you should consider that.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, we will consider that in executive session. Mr. COULTER. Well, anyway, there has been a scheme, and I think of all the schemes that have been proposed in the history of the United States there has not been one so injurious to the proper development of the United States of America and to the Southwest. It destroys the most sacred principle upon which our Constitution rests, and that is the development of its natural resources. We have got to protect the people, and we must protect the things that they need-their food, clothing, and shelter.

Senator DILL. Mr. Colter, there are a group of citizens who need protection now, and I want to weigh that against this protection some time in the indefinite future. These citizens down in the Imperial Valley and down at Yuma need protection now.

Mr. COULTER. Yes.

Senator DILL. The State of Arizona is looking, naturally, to its rights in the future. But the thing that I am concerned with is some practical method that will protect those citizens without hurting Arizona too greatly. It seems to me the future of Arizona may be compelled to suffer a little because of the needs of the present, and I am concerned about the practical situation in hand. I wish you would suggest a practical method of solving this question now.

Mr. COLTER. I am coming to that, because we are just as muchThe CHAIRMAN. You had better hasten on. The time is passing rapidly.

Mr. COLTER. Ten minutes. I am coming to that. We are just like you. We want to solve that situation, but only when it can be solved by adopting a plan that will save Arizona. And she is willing to make sacrifices at the same time. That is what we want to do. Senator SHORTRIDGE. What is your plan?

Mr. COLTER. Our plan has been to get the maximum development of the Colorado River built upon the Colorado-Wyoming decisionthe law of prior appropriation and beneficial use-until something better is proposed. We can not imagine anything being any better, any more expeditious, quicker, and more fair than the building of the Glen Canyon dam at the head of the canyon as a storage dam and power dam.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Then you mean the building of the dam at Glen Canyon?

Mr. COLTER. Yes.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. That is one step in the process of solving or carrying out your plan?

Mr. COLTER. At the head of the canyon, with a Bridge Canyon dam, which is one of the best sites on the river anywhere; best in every way.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Yes.

Mr. COLTER. With diversion to a high-line canal that can serve both California and Arizona in the irrigation of this land.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. How much would that cost, approximately? Mr. COLTER. May I explain that?

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Yes.

Mr. COLTER. The ultimate cost of the project would be something around three or four hundred million, depending a good deal upon the time that this construction would be started.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. When do you contemplate starting it, if you could?

Mr. COLTER. We have been at it for six weeks. We have been working on it for six weeks.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. I mean the building of it. You say it would cost about three or four hundred million.

Mr. COLTER. Yes; and one-fourth of the power will pay for the whole thing, and you have got three-fourths of the power left for other purposes.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. If you will pardon me, Mr. Chairman, I think perhaps I can assist the witness to develop his theory by one or two more questions. You say it would cost approximately three or four hundred million?

Mr. COLTER. Yes.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. By the building of certain dams and certain diversion canals?

Mr. COLTER. Yes.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Query. Who, according to your theory and your plan, would advance the money to carry on the work?

Mr. COLTER. According to my idea, who would advance the money is rather premature, but I have this in mind, just as any other project. Senator SHORTRIDGE. Not premature. However, go on.

Mr. COLTER. You take the Roesevelt project, when it was first started, just as we have started this, it was practically 30 years before they ever got ready to finance it. It takes many, many years--sometimes scores of years-in preparing your ground before the Government will look at you, before the bond buyers will look at you, and even before your own State will look at you.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. In the meantime, if it takes that long a period, the whole Imperial Valley might be inundated and a great damage to property and life will result.

Mr. COLTER. All right. Don't interrupt me. Don't make me leave my topic. We realize that any construction, just as I pointed out or illustrated by the Roosevelt project, can not be built overnight, but you must start somewhere. When you start you can build it at certain places, in certain ways that will as an initial start take care of the flood-control situation in emergencies, but in so doing develop it so that you get results from the maximum development of the whole system.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. You are opposed to the compact as it is drawn, I understand?

Mr. COLTER. I am opposed to the compact, decidedly so, because it practically leaves Arizona dry and it destroys the Colorado River situation. The reason why I make that statement is, first, because it so divides the water that you can not build anything but power dams, for it does away with irrigation. Another thing that is bad, as I told you a while ago, any power dam is dangerous.

Now, getting back to this development, when the Roosevelt Dam as an entire system-if you will just take the system, the way that the Roosevelt Dam and the different dams under it were constructed is a very ideal method to adopt in the construction of our proposed project as a whole in the years to come. When the Roosevelt Dam was financed all over the country they were hollering, they were saying there was an oversupply of raw products, an oversupply of agriculture. But that at that time was monopoly propaganda, just as it is now monopoly propaganda. You know it is an economic situation, and whenever a bad economic condition arises general business is at a standstill. But when economically things prosper you are going to see development, as it did in the Roosevelt days, come very rapidly. In addition to that it has only been 100 years since George Washington's time and we are traveling very rapidly now. I can see clearly that if we start this in this way-the proper way-there is