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Senator JOHNSON. They have the first crack at it? Mr. SCOTT. Yes, sir. Senator JOHNSON. They take half of it? Mr. Scott. They are entitled to half of it. Senator JOHNSON. No matter how much irrigable land they have, they take half of the water that goes into Mexico?

Mr. SCOTT. That is our contention, that they will receive more benefits to the exclusion and detriment of the United States.

Senator JOHNSON. Precisely, and if they do continue to cultivate more land in Mexico, it damages the land in Imperial Valley, doesn't it?

Mr. Scott. Yes; that would result. Senator Johnson. Exactly. And the water that goes down there, the more land they cultivate, the more water they will take?

Mr. Scott. Yes. Senator JOANSON. And the less water there will be for Imperial Valley?

Mr. Scott. That is the result.

Senator Johnson. Now, for the purpose of protection of the Imperial Valley and for the purpose of maintaining irrigation, the Imperial Valley, or the irrigation district here, which is practically the same thing, obligated itself for $16,500,000

Mr. Scott. Yes.

Senator JOHNSON. It will continue, of course, its work of protection and its work of irrigation and reclamation and the like; that is assumed, is it not?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes, sir.

Senator Johnson. And not a penny of it will be paid by the lands in Mexico, will it?

Mr. Scott. Not on the bonded indebtedness.
Senator Johnson. Nor will they be obligated for any part of it?
Mr. Scott. No; I think not.

Senator JOHNSON. All right. Now, you speak of the dam site upon the Colorado River; you make no selection at all in your generalization of the purposes of your organization, do you?

Mr. SCOTT. Correct. Senator Johnson. Do you make any statement as to the height of that dam?

Mr. SCOTT. We do not.

Senator Johnson. Have you reached any conclusion as to the height of the dam?

Mr. SCOTT. We have not.

Senator JOHNSON. Has your organization at any time made a determination upon the height of the dam?

Mr. Scott. They have not.

Senator JOHNSON. Have they at any time ever determined upon its location?

Mr. Scort. They have not.

Senator JOHNSON. Has there been any meeting of the members of your organization?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes.
Senator JOHNSON. Have any members withdrawn?
Mr. SCOTT. Yes.
Senator JOHNSON. How many?

Mr. Scott. I couldn't answer. That is obtainable. Senator Johnson. Obtainable from you, is it? Mr. SCOTT. From the records of the club. Senator JOHNSON. Will you bring us the number that recently have withdrawn?

Mr. Scott. Yes, I will be glad to do that. I want to say, Mr. Johnson, that when I make a statement here that this represents 270,000 acres in Imperial County, that eliminates those who withdrew for obvious reasons.

Senator Johnson. What is the largest number of members of your organization that you have ever had in a meeting? Mr. Scott. Oh, I can't answer that; I was not present.

Senator JOHNSON. Have you ever been present at a general meeting of the membership? Mr. SCOTT. Yes. Senator Johnson. How many have been there? Mr. Scott. Oh, I would estimate 200, perhaps.

Senator JOHNSON. Were there any losses by reason of shortage of water in Imperial County last year?

Mr. Scott. I think not, but I don't want to say definitely. Senator Johnson. Have you ever seen any report of the farm adviser on that score?

Mr. Scott. I have not.

Senator Johnson. Do you know whether there were any losses by reason of shortage of water last year?

Mr. Scott. I can not commit myself definitely on that.

Senator JOHNSON. How many acres of land are under cultivation in Mexico now, contiguous to Imperial Valley?

Mr. SCOTT. My understanding is 270,000 acres.

Senator Johnson. How many susceptible of irrigation and reclamation there?

Mr. Scott. Several hundred thousand acres more.

Senator Johnson. Do you know whether or not constantly they are putting more under cultivation?

Mr. Scott. I know that a year ago they were; I have not been down there in nearly that time.

Senator Johnson. Haven't been down there in a year, but a year ago they were working constantly! Mr. SCOTT. Yes; they were advancing constantly.

Senator JOHNSON. That is all, Mr. Chairman, but I would like to him produce the documents referred to.

Mr. Scott. If it is the wish of the committee.

Senator Johnson. Was there more than one circular that you sent out to the people of Imperial Valley upon this organization?

Mr. Scott. Yes, sir; there were a few others.
Senator Johnson. Will you send all the circulars ?
Mr. Scott. Yes.
Senator JOHNSON. All right, sir.
Mr. Scott. We have nothing to conceal, Senator Johnson.

Senator Johnson. I trust you haven't. There ought not to be anything to conceal in a matter of this sort by anybody.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Ashurst.

Senator ASHURST. According to your statement it is the opinion of the organization you represent, that the construction of the AllAmerican Canal would be a heavy burden upon those who attempt to irrigate lands under it.

Mr. SCOTT. Correct.

Senator Ashurst. Such a heavy burden that your club is opposing the All-American Canal ?

Mr. Scott. Yes.

Senator Ashurst. But you say that you are willing that it should be constructed for ex-service men; are you willing that they should bear that heavy burden and be singled out to bear it and others should not?

Mr. Scott. Not as ex-service men.
Senator ASHURST. That is what I understood you to say.

Mr. Scott. No, indeed; not to single out the ex-service men, but perhaps I may talk for the club in that respect. We don't care to minimize the interest that our Government has or should take in the ex-service men, and we are willing that they be given a preferential or an exclusive right on all the arid lands that exist on the east mesa or Coachella Valley lands.

The CHAIRMAN. I think you misunderstood the statement of the witness,

Mr. SCOTT. If lands now arid get an all-American canal and will pay for it, or if the United States Government will construct such a canal for the benefit of ex-service men, the club will interpose no objections.

Senator ASHURST. Then your club would interpose no objection; you would be indifferent and neutral on the subject?

Mr. Scott. In a nutshell, Senator Ashurst, this is our position, that we don't believe with our present burden of bonded indebtedness and taxation that it is worth the amended supply of water, particularly if the dam were constructed, that we should not have imposed upon us an additional burden on our lands. In other words, that lands that are served should pay for it instead of the lands that are now irrigable, in Imperial Valley.

Senator Ashurst. Then it appears there is some division of sentiment among the landholders of this valley as to the construction of the AN-American Canal.

Mr. Scott. That is correct.

Senator ASHURST. Let me ask you if there is a division of opinion on the Mexican side of the line?

Mr. Scott. Well, I don't feel qualified to answer as to the Mexican side, because our interest is solely in our land.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to again admonish those present to be quiet and let the meeting proceed.

Senator Ashurst. Frankly, there is no division of opinion on the other side of the line; our neighbors on the Mexican side, are unanimously opposed to the construction of the All-American Canal, "is that not true?

Mr. Scott. I can't answer that.

Senator ASHURST. Let me answer it for you in the nomenclature of the poker table: No man with four aces ever clamored for a new deal.

Mr. Scott. That is correct.

Senator JOHNSON. What is the largest acreage that is held by a member of your association?

Mr. Scott. I will obtain that for you, too, Senator Johnson, if you desire it. There are not any large acreages involved.

Senator JOHNSON. Isn't there any very large acreage involved among your membership?

Mr. SCOTT. No, sir.
Senator JOHNSON. No large acreage at all?

Mr. Scott. No; 1,300 landowners in Imperial Valley, Senator Johnson; 1,300 of them. They represent a majority of the land in Imperial County and were solicited only by mail and within 90 days. If we had made a personal solicitation we could have enhanced that materially

Senator Johnson. All of it was solicited in 90 days?
Mr. SCOTT. Yes, sir.

Senator JOHNSON. By the literature that you are going to furnish this committee?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes.
Senator DILL. Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. Senator Dill, of Washington.

Senator Dill. Mr. Scott, I notice that in your statement the construction of the All-American Canal would not obviate the necessity of still going into Mexico to protect the Imperial Valley in the way of a levee.

Mr. Scott. An engineer has so stated.
Senator DILL. For what reason?

Mr. Scott. The reason that I glean from it is that on account of the heavy silt that will come through the All-American Canal and the probability that storms out in the shifting sands may fill up that canal, that we better hold the present system for an emergency. And another reason is that frequently the Gila River, the confluence of which is considerably lower than the proposed dam site, floods at certain seasons, and the dam would not protect that in any way. And this engineer has made that report that we can not get along without that system. In other words, something may happen to the proposed All-American Canal if constructed that we may have, to revert to the use of the present system.

Senator Dill. But if the All-American Canal proves to be what is claimed for it by those who want it constructed, there would be no necessity of any further construction of levees in Mexico?

Mr. Scott. If they satisfied Congress that that was

Senator Dill. No, no; I am not talking about Congress. You say it might not work, but I say if it did work as they say it will work there would be no necessity of continuing levees in Mexico to protect Imperial Valley?

Mr. Scott. Perhaps not, if it did work as they claim it would work.

Senator Dill. You spoke also about some of this 500,000 acres in the valley not being in use and therefore the present charge was more than what would seem to be proportionate. That is, some of it is not being used. Of this 270,000 acres which your organization represents, is that all in active cultivation? Mr. Scott. Yes, I think it is all in cultivation.

Senator DILL. And you don't know what the charge now is on that land?

Mr. SCOTT. No; I have not computed it.

Senator Dill. Does it run much above $30 an acre?

Mr. Scott. Well, I have not computed it. It is just a matter of computation; I am sorry I can not answer that.

Senator Dill. Well, for the 500,000 $16,000,000 would be slightly over $30 an acre?

Mr. Scott. Yes.

Senator Dill. But some of it, you say, is not in use, and I am wondering what percentage, because that raises the amount each acre has to pay materially.

Mr. SCOTT. Yes; I don't know what that raise would be. I think that information might be given the committee through the day. There are persons here who can give you exact figures on that subject.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the water charge assessed against the lands in Mexico?

Mr. Scott. That may be answered by persons present, Senator McNary, accurately.

The CHAIRMAN. The land that is not used is mainly alkaline, due to want of drainage ?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it true that the district has recently issued bonds to take care of a rather comprehensive drainage system?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes; bonds have been issued, and construction has been under way.

The CHAIRMAN. Those lands now imperfectly drained will return to use when that system is completed?

Mr. Scott. That is our hope.

Senator DILL. If the All-American Canal was constructed this present investment in the canal would be a total loss?

Mr. Scott. That is a difference of opinion, too. I think we, under our contract would forfeit the right to that $6,000,000 investment.

The CHAIRMAN. Do I understand by the construction of an AllAmerican Canal you would not abandon the present canal ?

Mr. Scott. Well, the engineers claim that that must be still maintained. But if we don't use the waters, receive any waters in American territory from Mexico under our contract, I think that we would forfeit the legal rights to use water.

The CHAIRMAN. That does not answer my inquiry at all. You have a canal that cost a great many millions of dollars and you are obligated under contract with a corporation in Mexico, to bring water down the canal. If the All-American Canal were constructed, it would not displace the present canal; it would be used to irrigate new lands and supplement the water now coming from the present canal.

Mr. SCOTT. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Then the present canal, would be of the same utility then as it is now?

Mr. Scott. Yes.
Senator Dill. I do not so understand.
Senator PHIPPS. I do not so understand.
The CHAIRMAN. I want to understand.

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