Mr. SCOTT. Well, we claim that the provision of the bill does provide exactly for that.

The CHAIRMAN. Point out that provision. It is interesting to me.. Mr. SCOTT. I have in my portfolio a copy of the Swing-Johnson bill, if I may refer to it.

Senator JOHNSON. Mr. Chairman, the bill does provide that the lands shall bear their proportionate expense.

The CHAIRMAN. All the land in the Imperial Valley?
Senator JOHNSON. All the land under the reclamation law.
Senator ASHURST. Senator Johnson, I understood you to say
cording to the benefits received."

Senator JOHNSON. Certainly.

Senator ASHURST. I understood him to say that they do not need additional water and additional water would not bring benefit to their land; therefore they would not have to pay anything.

Senator JOHNSON. That is a different proposition. If they received no benefit from the All-American Canal, I assume they would have nothing to pay, but the assumption is that they would receive benefit from the All-American Canal by reason of receiving an additional water supply and waters in the canal.

Mr. SCOTT. If I might answer Senator Johnson on that question. We believe that his statement will be obviated by the construction of a dam, because if a high dam or a low dam might be considered on the Colorado River we would be guaranteed an equable flow of water during all the year, so we are sure of water by the construction of the dam alone. At the present time we need the dam.

Senator JOHNSON. The Secretary of the Interior would allocate the cost of the canal and he would be the final arbiter in the determination of what should be paid.

May I interrogate this witness?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; Senator Johnson.

Mr. SCOTT. And see if I can answer it, and if I can't I will ask the privilege of referring it to somebody who can. I am not familiar with the technical phases.

Senator JOHNSON. We desire the full exposition of your side of this controversy just as we do the presentation of our own side. Now, have you a list of the members of your organization?

Mr. SCOTT. We have.

Senator JOHNSON. Will you give the list of the members to the secretary of this committee, if you please?

Mr. SCOTT. If the committee desires, we would be glad to submit the list of our members.

Senator JOHNSON. With the age of each.

Mr. SCOTT. Yes; we can do that.

Senator JOHNSON. Will you do that before the committee is through, please?

Mr. SCOTT. I shall endeavor to have that done. I don't know whether it is compiled. We have a filed record of every land owner that has signed up. I don't know whether it is compiled. If it is possible, I shall do so.

Senator JOHNSON. What is the date of the formation of your organization?

72578-25-PT 2- -2

Mr. SCOTT. On June 24, 1924.

Senator JOHNSON. Was it formed by the signing of cards at the time?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes, sir.

Senator JOHNSON. Have you one of those cards?

Mr. SCOTT. Not in my possession.

Senator JOHNSON. Will you produce one and give it to the secretary?

Mr. SCOTT. I will be very glad to do that.

Senator JOHNSON. Does the card specifically mention the AllAmerican Canal?

Mr. SCOTT. It does not.

Senator JOHNSON. You speak of your organization being in favor of certain sites. Have you declared in favor of any particular site? Mr. SCOTT. We have recommended that a dam should be constructed at or near a point on-near Boulder Canyon. However, in our first statement of aims and purposes of this organization, I shall read three lines, which were submitted to the signers. Senator JOHNSON. Well, suppose you read it all; is it brief? Mr. SCOTT. Yes; all of the purposes, Senator Johnson? Senator JOHNSON. If you please.

Mr. SCOTT. If that is the wish of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. How long is it?

Mr. SCOTT. It is one page.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you be satisfied with putting it in the record?

Senator JOHNSON. Yes; to save time.

Mr. SCOTT. But if I may be permitted to answer Senator Johnson's question, I will read three lines in this statement of aims and purposes of this organization set forth in the declaration of principles upon which the organization is based, as follows:

To promote by every proper means the early construction of a flood control and storage dam on the Colorado River at a site to be selected by proper governmental authority, which will afford adequate flood protection and storage for Imperial Valley and all other irrigable lands in the lower Colorado River Basin. Senator JOHNSON. Will you provide for storage for the Imperial Valley?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes.

Senator JOHNSON. That is on the theory that you need water? Mr. SCOTT. Absolutely.

Senator JOHNSON. Now, you have a total indebtedness on the Imperial irrigation district of about $16,500,0Q0?

Mr. SCOTT. That is my understanding.

Senator JOHNSON. How much of that are the lands in Mexico obligated for?

Mr. SCOTT. I couldn't answer that.

Senator JOHNSON. Why, you know that they are not obligated for a penny, don't you?

Mr. SCOTT. I assume they are not.

Senator JOHNSON. Then you are able to answer, aren't you?
Mr. SCOTT. I can't answer definitely, sir.

Senator JOHNSON. Now, the water that you get goes down into Mexico first, doesn't it?

Mr. SCOTT. That is correct.

Senator JOHNSON. They have the first crack at it?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes, sir.

Senator JOHNSON. They take half of it?

Mr. SCOTT. They are entitled to half of it.

Senator JOHNSON. No matter how much irrigable land they have, they take half of the water that goes into Mexico?

Mr. SCOTT. That is our contention, that they will receive more benefits to the exclusion and detriment of the United States.

Senator JOHNSON. Precisely, and if they do continue to cultivate more land in Mexico, it damages the land in Imperial Valley,

doesn't it?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes; that would result.

Senator JOHNSON. Exactly. And the water that goes down there, the more land they cultivate, the more water they will take? Mr. SCOTT. Yes.

Senator JOHNSON. And the less water there will be for Imperial Valley?

Mr. SCOTT. That is the result.

Senator JOHNSON. Now, for the purpose of protection of the Imperial Valley and for the purpose of maintaining irrigation, the Imperial Valley, or the irrigation district here, which is practically the same thing, obligated itself for $16,500,000?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes.

Senator JOHNSON. It will continue, of course, its work of protection and its work of irrigation and reclamation and the like; that is assumed, is it not?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes, sir.

Senator JOHNSON. And not a penny of it will be paid by the lands in Mexico, will it?

Mr. SCOTT. Not on the bonded indebtedness.

Senator JOHNSON. Nor will they be obligated for any part of it? Mr. SCOTT. No; I think not.

Senator JOHNSON. All right. Now, you speak of the dam site upon the Colorado River; you make no selection at all in your generalization of the purposes of your organization, do you?

Mr. SCOTT. Correct.

Senator JOHNSON. Do you make any statement as to the height of that dam?

Mr. SCOTT. We do not.

Senator JOHNSON. Have you reached any conclusion as to the height of the dam?

Mr. SCOTT. We have not.

Senator JOHNSON. Has your organization at any time made a determination upon the height of the dam?

Mr. SCOTT. They have not.

Senator JOHNSON. Have they at any time ever determined upon its location?

Mr. SCOTT. They have not.

Senator JOHNSON. Has there been any meeting of the members of your organization?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes.

Senator JOHNSON. Have any members withdrawn?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes.

Senator JOHNSON. How many?

Mr. SCOTT. I couldn't answer. That is obtainable.
Senator JOHNSON. Obtainable from you, is it?

Mr. SCOTT. From the records of the club.

Senator JOHNSON. Will you bring us the number that recently have withdrawn?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes, I will be glad to do that. I want to say, Mr. Johnson, that when I make a statement here that this represents 270,000 acres in Imperial County, that eliminates those who withdrew for obvious reasons.

Senator JOHNSON. What is the largest number of members of your organization that you have ever had in a meeting?

Mr. SCOTT. Oh, I can't answer that; I was not present.

Senator JOHNSON. Have you ever been present at a general meeting of the membership?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes.

Senator JOHNSON. How many have been there?

Mr. SCOTT. Oh, I would estimate 200, perhaps.

Senator JOHNSON. Were there any losses by reason of shortage of water in Imperial County last year?

Mr. SCOTT. I think not, but I don't want to say definitely.

Senator JOHNSON. Have you ever seen any report of the farm adviser on that score?

Mr. SCOTT. I have not.

Senator JOHNSON. Do you know whether there were any losses by reason of shortage of water last year?

Mr. SCOTT. I can not commit myself definitely on that.

Senator JOHNSON. How many acres of land are under cultivation in Mexico now, contiguous to Imperial Valley?

Mr. SCOTT. My understanding is 270,000 acres.

Senator JOHNSON. How many susceptible of irrigation and reclamation there?

Mr. SCOTT. Several hundred thousand acres more.

Senator JOHNSON. Do you know whether or not constantly they are putting more under cultivation?

Mr. SCOTT. I know that a year ago they were; I have not been down there in nearly that time.

Senator JOHNSON. Haven't been down there in a year, but a year ago they were working constantly?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes; they were advancing constantly.

Senator JOHNSON. That is all, Mr. Chairman, but I would like to him produce the documents referred to.

Mr. SCOTT. If it is the wish of the committee.

Senator JOHNSON. Was there more than one circular that you sent out to the people of Imperial Valley upon this organization? Mr. SCOTT. Yes, sir; there were a few others.

Senator JOHNSON. Will you send all the circulars?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes.

Senator JOHNSON. All right, sir.

Mr. SCOTT. We have nothing to conceal, Senator Johnson. Senator JOHNSON. I trust you haven't. There ought not to be anything to conceal in a matter of this sort by anybody. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Ashurst.

Senator ASHURST. According to your statement it is the opinion of the organization you represent, that the construction of the All

American Canal would be a heavy burden upon those who attempt

to irrigate lands under it.

Mr. SCOTT. Correct.

Senator ASHURST. Such a heavy burden that your club is opposing the All-American Canal?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes.

Senator ASHURST. But you say that you are willing that it should be constructed for ex-service men; are you willing that they should bear that heavy burden and be singled out to bear it and others should not?

Mr. SCOTT. Not as ex-service men.

Senator ASHURST. That is what I understood you to say.

Mr. SCOTT. No, indeed; not to single out the ex-service men, but perhaps I may talk for the club in that respect. We don't care to minimize the interest that our Government has or should take in the ex-service men, and we are willing that they be given a preferential or an exclusive right on all the arid lands that exist on the east mesa or Coachella Valley lands.

The CHAIRMAN. I think you misunderstood the statement of the witness.

Mr. SCOTT. If lands now arid get an all-American canal and will pay for it, or if the United States Government will construct such a canal for the benefit of ex-service men, the club will interpose no objections.

Senator ASHURST. Then your club would interpose no objection; you would be indifferent and neutral on the subject?

Mr. SCOTT. In a nutshell, Senator Ashurst, this is our position, that we don't believe with our present burden of bonded indebtedness and taxation that it is worth the amended supply of water, particularly if the dam were constructed, that we should not have imposed upon us an additional burden on our lands. In other words, that lands that are served should pay for it instead of the lands that are now irrigable, in Imperial Valley.

Senator ASHURST. Then it appears there is some division of sentiment among the landholders of this valley as to the construction of the All-American Canal.

Mr. SCOTT. That is correct.

Senator ASHURST. Let me ask you if there is a division of opinion on the Mexican side of the line?

Mr. SCOTT. Well, I don't feel qualified to answer as to the Mexican side, because our interest is solely in our land.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to again admonish those present to be quiet and let the meeting proceed.

Senator ASHURST. Frankly, there is no division of opinion on the other side of the line; our neighbors on the Mexican side, are unanimously opposed to the construction of the All-American Canal, is that not true?

Mr. SCOTT. I can't answer that.

Senator ASHURST. Let me answer it for you in the nomenclature of the poker table: No man with four aces ever clamored for a new deal. Mr. SCOTT. That is correct.

Senator JOHNSON. What is the largest acreage that is held by a member of your association?