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tion of flood waters for use when the river is low and removal of flood menace.

The club opposes the All-American Canal feature of the SwingJohnson bill as proposed on the grounds that it is not needed by the lands within the Imperial irrigation district, which lands are now, and for 20 years have been, adequately served by the present canals, and would necessitate an expenditure entirely disproportionate to any possible benefits.

If lands now arid need an All-American Canal, and will pay for it, or if the United States Government will construct such a canal for the benefit of ex-service men, the club will interpose no objection.

But the Swing-Johnson bill proposes that a considerable part of the cost of the All-American Canal, estimated to exceed $40 per acre, shall be borne by lands now irrigated, and the club contends that such an increase in our bonded indebteness would be ruinous. Surely in such a matter the landowners who must pay the bonds are to be considered, and the majority of them have, by joining this club and indorsing its principles, declared their unequivocal opposition to the canal as provided for in the bill.

The reasons advanced for building the canal are so unsound as to merit little attention were it not that they have been widely broadcasted and have intrigued the support of the uninformed. Chief of these is the claim that the All-American Canal would "get us out of Mexico." The club asserts that it would not.

As well stated in a letter addressed to Hon. Addison T. Smith by the Federal Power Commission, a copy of which is appended hereto:

The construction of the All-American Canal will not obviate the necessity of constant dealings with Mexico in connection with irrigation or protection of lands in the United States. Irrespective of the amount of flood-control storage in the United States, it will, for many years at least, be necessary in the protection of the Imperial Valley to maintain levees and revetments in Mexico, and arrangements must be effected whereby this work can be carried on whenever necessary without interference.

As is also affirmed in that letter, our problems with Mexico can only be settled through the State Department of the United States and not through the construction of canals.

Furthermore, an open canal of 150 or 200 feet on the bottom and approximately 1,350 feet across the top, extending through a 10-mile region of drifting sand dunes, which rise to a maximum height of 150 feet above the water surface, is admittedly an experiment, the practicability of which has been gravely questioned by eminent engineers who, at various times during the last 60 years, have investigated it.

Engineer Ebenezer Hadley, of San Diego County, selected a route through Mexico about 60 years ago. Subsequently, in 1876, an examination was made under Government direction to determine whther or not it would be feasible to reach Imperial Valley without following the route through Mexico. This survey was made by Lieut. Eric Bergland, Corps of Engineers, United States Army, who reported unfavorably upon a canal location entirely in the United States and again called attention to the natural route across Mexican territory.

Dr. Elwood Mead, in his report of 1917 (see p. 29), stated that,

The present canals cross the Mexican territory. Financial considerations make this the proper route and render an all-American canal impossible,

The All-American Canal Board, consisting of Doctor Mead, W. W. Schlecht, and C. E. Grunsky, have this to say:

The contract between the Secretary of the Interior and the Imperial irrigation district under which this board has been appointed is specific and definite in the requirement that an all-American canal route be surveyed and examined. No alternative has been left open. The surveys and investigations which have been made relate, therefore, to a canal located throughout upon American territory. Our investigation could not be broadened out to a full consideration of the wisest and best treatment of the irrigation problem of the lower Colorado River in its broadest aspect. This is to be regretted, because the lower river presents problems of unique perplexity.

As implied by the All-American Canal Board in the foregoing quotations and asserted by other engineers the mesa lands can be watered by other means for less cost.

The cost of maintaining the proposed canal has not been estimated, but would, doubtless, exceed the cost of maintaining the present canal, which cost is more than offset by the revenue derived from the sale of water to Mexican lands. In 1924 Chief Engineer Carberry, of the Imperial irrigation district, submitted a financial report which shows that the revenue thus derived is sufficient not only to pay the entire cost of maintaining the canal through Mexico, but, in addition, pay the entire cost of diverting the water from the Colorado, the entire cost of maintaining the protective levees in Mexico, and to leave a net balance of approximately $60,000. According to that report, the American farmers who own the Imperial irrigation district receive their water at the international line with all those costs paid, plus a substantial profit.

This proposed canal, so far as the lands now under irrigation in Imperial Valley are concerned, if and when constructed and in operation, can be no more than a substitute conduit for carrying a supply of water from the Colorado River to those lands. It would entail the abandonment, without recompense, of that system of structures and canals, no longer an experiment but now in satisfactory operation and found practical and efficient after many years of experience and the expenditure of very large amounts of money. To ask the present irrigated lands to abandon the present system found efficient and accept in exchange the untried experiment of a canal built through shifting sands in itself would be unjust, but to further propose that these lands bear any portion of the expense of this costly experiment is earnestly protested against by the membership of this club, composed as it is of those landowners who would be compelled to pay the greatest part of any expense charged up to the Imperial irrigation district.

Finally, the Colorado River Control Club opposes the canal on the grounds that it is delaying legislation necessary to Colorado River development. We believe that there is urgent need for action without unnecessary delay, and that the various States and communities interested can more quickly be brought into accord by a program of a river development considering only paramount issues and freed from all local and controversial proposals.

We attach hereto other papers more fully expressing the club's attitude which you may be interested to read.

In submitting our views for your consideration we ask you to keep in mind that the sole interests of our members are in the American portion of Imperial Valley, and that they are actuated only by desire to aid in accomplishing that which is for the valley's greatest good.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Scott, what is the water charge per acre now assessed against those whom you represent?

Mr. SCOTT. The bonded indebtedness, does your question refer to?

The CHAIRMAN, No. But answer in your own way.

Mr. Scott. There is a $16,500,000 bonded indebtedness, as I understand.

The CHAIRMAN. What would be the debt unit per acre?

Mr. Scott. Well, it would approximate 500,000 acres to share that burden. But, on that point, that can be computed—I am not familiar with the computation. On that point our experience in this valley has been that a great part of the lands have, by reason of alkali reverted to the irrigation district, and are not carrying the burden, a very large amount, and therefore throwing an unusual burden on the present irrigable lands.

The CHAIRMAN. Have those belonging to your organization sufficient water coming to them now, under the present ditch ?

Mr. SCOTT. They have.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you experienced a shortage in the last few years?

Mr. Scott. It has been dangerously near a shortage on some occasions. We were threathened with a shortage last year, but, however, we escaped by rains in the mountains in Arizona, and on several occasions we have been in constant anxiety about our shortage. In other words, to picture this Colorado River, it has a velocity sometimes of 35 miles an hour in the canyon and rushes to the Gulf of California, and then a little later the very antithesis exists. The waters calmly subside and keep us in constant anxiety as to whether or not we will receive any water for our irrigation and expecting constantly that our crops may be ruined.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this organization incorporated?

Mr. Scott. It is not an incorporated organization. The organization, if I may state, was originated primarily in a belief that the legislation which we most earnestly desire was being delayed by reason of the All-American Canal feature. We believe that the Congressmen, your colleagues, can not be made to see the necessity of bringing additional land under irrigation.

The CHAIRMAN. You don't believe that your organization should be compelled to carry a further load in order to construct the AllAmerican Canal ?

Mr. SCOTT. We do believe that our organization should not be compelled to carry a further load, because the benefits would not accrue to our land to that extent.

The CHAIRMAN. By the construction of this canal would the land be compelled to carry the additional charge which you claim to be $40 an acre?

Mr. SCOTT. We believe that that would be the result under the bill.

The CHAIRMAN. If you have sufficient water and you are not in the corporation or the district, how could you be forced to pay for this water which would not benefit your lands and which you do not want?

Mr. Scott. Well, we claim that the provision of the bill does provide exactly for that.

The CHAIRMAN. Point out that provision. It is interesting to me. Mr. Scott. I have in my portfolio a copy of the Swing-Johnson bill

, if I may refer to it. Senator JOHNSON. Mr. Chairman, the bill does provide that the lands shall bear their proportionate expense.

The CHAIRMAN. All the land in the Imperial Valley?
Senator JOHNSON. All the land under the reclamation law..

Senator ASHURST. Senator Johnson, I understood you to say "according to the benefits received."

Senator JOHNSON. Certainly. Senator ASHURST. I understood him to say that they do not need additional water and additional water would not bring benefit to their land; therefore they would not have to pay anything:

Senator JOHNSON. That is a different proposition. If they received no benefit from the All-American Canal, I assume they would have nothing to pay, but the assumption is that they would receive benefit from the All-American Canal by reason of receiving an additional water supply and waters in the canal.

Mr. Scott. If I might answer Senator Johnson on that question. We believe that his statement will be obviated by the construction of a dam, because if a high dam or a low. dam might be considered on the Colorado River we would be guaranteed an equable flow of water during all the year, so we are sure of water by the construction of the dam alone. Åt the present time we need the dam.

Senator JOHNSON. The Secretary of the Interior would allocate the cost of the canal and he would be the final arbiter in the determination of what should be paid.

May I interrogate this witness?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes; Senator Johnson.

Mr. SCOTT. And see if I can answer it, and if I can't I will ask the privilege of referring it to somebody who can. I am not familiar with the technical phases.

Senator JOHNSON. We desire the full exposition of your side of this controversy just as we do the presentation of our own side. Now, have you a list of the members of your organization?

Mr. Scott. We have.

Senator JOHNSON. Will you give the list of the members to the secretary of this committee, if you please?

Mr. Scott. If the committee desires, we would be glad to submit the list of our members.

Senator JOHNSON. With the age of each.
Mr. SCOTT. Yes; we can do that.

Senator JOHNSON. Will you do that before the committee is through, please?

Mr. Scott. I shall endeavor to have that done. I don't know whether it is compiled. We have a filed record of every land owner that has signed up. I don't know whether it is compiled. If it is possible, I shall do so.

Senator JOHNSON. What is the date of the formation of your organization?

72578—257-PT 22

Mr. SCOTT. On June 24, 1924.

Senator JOHNSON. Was it formed by the signing of cards at the time?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes, sir.
Senator JOHNSON. Have you one of those cards?
Mr. Scott. Not in my possession.

Senator Johnson. Will you produce one and give it to the secretary?

Mr. Scott. I will be very glad to do that.

Senator JOHNSON. Does the card specifically mention the AllAmerican Canal ?

Mr. Scott. It does not. Senator JOHNSON. You speak of your organization being in favor of certain sites. Have you declared in favor of any particular site?

Mr. Scott. We have recommended that a dam should be constructed at or near a point on--near Boulder Canyon. However, in our first statement of aims and purposes of this organization, I shall read three lines, which were submitted to the signers.

Senator Johnson. Well, suppose you read it all; is it brief? Mr. Scott. Yes; all of the purposes, Senator Johnson? Senator JOHNSON. If you please. Mr. SCOTT. If that is the wish of the committee. The CHAIRMAN. How long is it? Mr. Scott. It is one page. - The CHAIRMAN. Would you be satisfied with putting it in the record ? Senator JOHNSON. Yes; to save time.

Mr. Scott. But if I may be permitted to answer Senator Johnson's question, I will read three lines in this statement of aims and purposes of this organization set forth in the declaration of principles upon which the organization is based, as follows:

To promote by every proper means the early construction of a flood control and storage dam on the Colorado River at a site to be selected by proper governmental authority, which will afford adequate flood protection and storage for Imperial Valley and all other irrigable lands in the lower Colorado River Basin.

Senator Johnson. Will you provide for storage for the Imperial Valley?

Mr. SCOTT. Yes.
Senator JOHNSON. That is on the theory that you need water?
Mr. SCOTT. Absolutely.

Senator JOHNSON. Now, you have a total indebtedness on the Imperial irrigation district of about $16,500,000?

Mr. SCOTT. That is my understanding.

Senator JOHNSON. How much of that are the lands in Mexico obligated for?

Mr. Scott. I couldn't answer that.

Senator JOHNSON. Why, you know that they are not obligated for a penny, don't you? Mr. Scott. I assume they are not. Senator JOHNSON. Then you are able to answer, aren't you? Mr. Scott. I can't answer definitely, sir.

Senator Johnson. Now, the water that you get goes down into Mexico first, doesn't it?

Mr. SCOTT. That is correct.

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