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Departments, boards, commissions, authorities, corporations, and activities of

the Government of the United States as of Jan. 1, 1937Continued

8. Advisory committees established by law, etc.—Continued.

Great Plains Committee.
Inquiry on Cooperative Enterprise in Europe.
Iạterdepartmental Committee on Civil International Aviation,
Interdepartmental Committee on Health and Welfare Activities.
Interdepartmental Committee on Safety in Federal Departments.
Interdepartmental Loan Committee.
National Advisory Committee on Aeronautics.
National Advisory Committee of the National Youth Adminis-

National Drought Committee.
President's Committee on Administrative Management.
President's Committee on Vocational Education.
Quetico-Superior Committee.

Radio Advisory Committee.
9. Miscellaneous establishments_

Columbia Institute for the Deaf.
Howard University.
National Academy of Science.
National Railroad Labor Board.
National Training School for Boys.
Textile Foundation, Inc.
United States High Commissioner, Philippine Islands.
United States Soldiers' Home.
Washington National Monument Society.



Senator BYRNES. All right. Are there any more questions of the witness? I do not think he has had a chance to answer any of them.

Senator TOWNSEND. This probably should have been referred to in the hearing, but your study was made under the Deficiency Appropriation Act of June 26, 1936, was it not?

Mr. BROWNLOW. I think that was it. Senator TOWNSEND. I want to ask that that act, which is short, be placed in the record.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean the entire act or just the provision of the act that relates to this subject?

Senator TOWNSEND. It begins by "Study of executive agencies."
(The act referred to is as follows:)


[H. R. 12624]





Study of executive agencies : The President of the United States is hereby authorized to allocate, out of funds appropriated by the Emergency Relief Appropriation Act of 1935 (49 Stat. 115), not to exceed $100,000 for the expenses of a committee designated by him to make a study of the emergency and regular agencies of the executive branch of the Government for the purpose of making recommendations to secure the most efficient organization and management of that branch of the public service. Such committee shall ascertain whether the activities of any such agency conflict with or overlap the activities of any other such agency, and whether, in the interest of simplification, efficiency, and economy, any of such agencies should be coordinated with other agencies or abolished,

or the personnel thereof reduced, and make recommendations with respect thereto. Copies of the report or reports of such studies and recommendations, to gether with the essential facts in connection therewith, shall be transmitted to the President and to Congress.

Senator TOWNSEND. Now, you feel that you have carried out this act by the bill which you have brought up here, do you not?

Mr. Brownlow. In part, and in part it was carried out by an assignment of funds through the House committee, and in part it will be completed by the detailed studies, or the more extensive studies, that we are going to file here.

Senator TOWNSEND. There was $100,000 of the relief appropriation assigned to you for that purpose, was there not?

Senator TOWNSEND. Which you have spent ?
Mr. BROWNLOW. No; not all of it.
Senator TOWNSEND. You have no other public moneys to spend ?

Mr. BROWNLOW. No. What we spent we spent from that appropriation.

Senator TOWNSEND. What were the highest salaries paid to your employees? In other words, how large a force did your committee have employed ?

Mr. BROWNLOW. We can give you a complete statement of that. They were paid one salary, at the rate of $8,000—that is, the director of research and there are others that were on a per-diem basis, and the members of the committee accepted no compensation.

Senator TOWNSEND. How extensive is your pay roll at the present time?

Mr. BROWNLOW. We can get that for you. We have five people, I think.

Senator TOWNSEND. And what is the amount of the unexpended balance ?

Mr. BROWNLOW. We can give you that. Of course, we have some printing things and other things against it. Then there is a small clerical force.

Senator BYRNES. You said the members of your committee have accepted no compensation?

Mr. BROWNLOW. No; except some recompense for actual traveling expenses, but no money for the three members of the committee.

Senator TOWNSEND. I think that ought to be shown in the report.

The CHAIRMAN. We will adjourn until 10 o'clock Thursday morning

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The joint committee met, Senator Robinson presiding.
The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

Representative COCHRAN. Mr. Chairman, before you proceed, I think the record shows that the Speaker of the House has named Hon. Harry Beam, of Illinois, a member of the House committee, and also a member of the joint committee.

The CHAIRMAN. I understood that that had been done. We will be very glad to have Mr. Beam in the proceedings.


The CHAIRMAN. Will you give the committee your official position, Mr. Buck? You may state what service you are engaged in and what has been your experince in general.

Mr. Buck. I am general staff member of the Institute of Public Administration in New York City and have been for about 20 years. The institute was formerly the New York Bureau of Municipal Research. My chief interest has been public finance, during the 20 years that I have been with the institute.

The CHAIRMAN. Were you engaged in the study of that while you were with the New York Bureau of Municipal Research?

Mr. BUCK. Yes, sir; since I became a member of the staff, 20 years ago.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you state just a little more definitely the line of work that you did while you were with that organization ?

Mr. BUCK. Well, I have worked mainly on budget and survey work—that is, investigation of the finances of State and local governments and, to a certain extent, of the finances of the National Government.

The CHAIRMAN. You are on the staff of the President's Committee on Administrative Management at the present time?

Mr. Buck. Yes; I think the exact title is consultant.
The CHAIRMAN. What duties have you performed as consultant?

Mr. BUCK. I have studied the financial structure and management and have prepared a report.

The CHAIRMAN. You have studied the financial structure and management of what? Mr. BUCK. Of the administration of the Government here. The CHAIRMAN. Federal administration? Mr. BUCK. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you prepared this morning to make something of a comparison between the plan that is now pursued with respect to accounting for expenditures and that which is proposed in the committee's report and recommendation?

Mr. BUCK. Yes, sir. I came with some charts to do that.
The CHAIRMAN. Very well. You may proceed in your own way.
Senator HARRISON. May I ask him a question, Mr. Chairman!

Senator HARRISON. Before you began work with this President's committee did you work in Washington studying Government reform and Government machinery?

Mr. Buck. Yes; I have been here from time to time since 1921, when the Budget and Accounting Act was passed, and I have been here several months with the Budget Bureau.

Senator HARRISON. How long did you work for the Budget Bureau ?

Mr. Buck. Oh, I think from September 1934 to May 1935.
The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed.

Senator BYRNES. Before you do, Mr. Buck, would you mind stating whether you have served in the capacity of consultant in the reorganization of any State governments?

Mr. Buck. Yes; quite a number.
Senator BYRNES. What States?

Mr. Buck. Well, Maine most recently, I suppose, Tennessee, Virginia, New York, and I made surveys in a number of other States.

Senator BYRNES. North Carolina?
Mr. Buck. I have done some work in North Carolina; yes.
Senator TOWNSEND. Delaware?
Mr. Buck. Yes. That was away back in 1919, as I recall.
Senator TOWNSEND. All right, Mr. Buck.

Mr. Buck. I have some charts here which I would like to distribute to members of the committee, showing the proposed system of expenditure control under the recommendations of the President's committee.

Representative TABER. Is this a picture of the situation as it is today, or something that you have in mind—some program that you

have in mind ? Mr. Buck. This is what is proposed; and, of course, it is keyed in to the present system.

Representative TABER. Do you have a picture of what it is now!

Mr. Buck. Yes. Perhaps we should talk about this one first and then take up the other picture, or would you care to have the other one first?

Representative TABER. Go ahead on this one. I will not interrupt you. Go ahead.

Mr. BUCK. Here is an explanatory statement that gives more in detail, probably, the line of procedure.

Representative TABER. On this chart? Mr. Buck. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Now, go ahead, Mr. Buck, and make your explanation.

Mr. Buck. This chart, as you will note, is divided into two fields. The upper part of it is called the District of Columbia, the lower part is called the field; that is, the agencies outside of Washington.

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