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Mr. Deyo. Thank you, sir.
Yes; I

agree.
Mr. Nix. Then you also stated :

My final point is one that may well have been stated first. This is the matter of equitable treatment of all persons called upon to serve their country under the Selective Service arrangements. It is difficult to see how, under present world conditions, a line can be drawn at one point in time and all on one side be listed as deserving and those on the other not.

Certainly, it would seem to me that this type of legislation eliminates a lot of inequity, right or wrong, that benefits the Nation; is that correct?

Mr. DEYO. That is correct.
Mr. Nix. Thank you.
Mr. Haley. Mr. Flynn.

Mr. Flynn. I have just one question. I note in your testimony your statement relative to the interruption of college work at the junior college level and the professional schools due to military service. I would like to ask if you have any figures on the number of boys and girls, or statistics on those who have family responsibilities during that period, who are unable to go back into schooling because of the lack of funds?

Mr. Deyo. No, sir. I would not have any statistics on hand in that regard.

Mr. Flyxx. Well, what has been your experience in this regard ?

Mr. DEYO. It is rather substantial. There are those who finish junior college and go into full-time employment and begin life as good citizens, marry and settle down. These are occasionally interrupted by military service, or if they have completed their military service they are very likely to continue their education in the evenings or on a part-time basis.

Others, upon completion of their junior college program, are inclined to enter service, complete their tour of obligation, then to return, depending on their inclinations and their resources, to enter the upper division of colleges and universities or to enter full-time employment.

Mr. HALEY. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Kansas.

Mr. GEORGE. Dean, if this committee should report out S. 1138, from your study of it would you consider just a continuation of that would cause any excess difliculty in putting the program into effect?

Mr. Deyo. Rather than not causing any excess difficulty, the point has already been made here, which I think is the appropriate one, we would simply continue with the machinery and know-how that we already have.

Mr. GEORGE. Under this S. 1138 ?
Mr. DEYO. Yes.

Mr. GEORGE. Now with respect to non-Communist affidavits it is not the oath that anyone objects to, is that not correct?

Mr. DEYO. That is correct.

Mr. GEORGE. It is the disclaimer affidavit, which is in addition so that that no one else desires to take?

Mr. DEYO. Exactly.
Mr. GEORGE. All right, thank you very much.
Mr. HALEY. Thank you very much.

STATEMENTS OF KENNETH C. CARL, DIRECTOR OF VOCATIONAL

EDUCATION, WILLIAMSPORT TECHNICAL INSTITUTE, WILLIAMSPORT, PA.; RAY C. PERROW, PRESIDENT, YOUNG FARMERS OF VIRGINIA, CONCORD, VA.; AND DR. M. D. MOBLEY, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY OF THE AMERICAN VOCATIONAL ASSOCIATION

Mr. Haley. You gentlemen may proceed.

Dr. MOBLEY. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is M. D. Mobley. I am the executive secretary of the American Vocational Association and these two gentlemen with me are representing our association.

In addition to Dr. Kenneth C. Carl, we have Mr. Ray C. Perrow of Virginia.

Mr. MITCHELL. Let me say that Dr. Mobley is a distinguished Georgian and happens to be from Dallas, Ga., and from the 7th Congressional District, which is the greatest district in the State of Georgia, So we are honored to have Dr. Mobley with us today.

Mr. Haley. I suppose you are from the 7th District ?
Mr. MITCHELL. That does happen to be my district, yes.

Mr. HALEY. I guessed at that and I can go along with the gentleman somewhat because I represent the 7th District of Florida, so I will agree they are great districts.

You may proceed, gentlemen.

Mr. CARL. Mr. Chairman and the members of the committee, it is indeed a pleasure to submit the following statement on behalf of the American Vocational Association and the American Technical Education Association.

My professional responsibilities at the Williamsport Technical Institute are concerned with the administration of extensive program of vocational-technical education of less than college grade. Many veterans have been enrolled in my school since the inception of the veterans educational benefits program. The organization which I represent strongly urges the enactment of legislation to extend educational benefits to veterans serving during peacetime.

The Williamsport Technical Institute has developed from a small vocational department in the Williamsport High School established in 1920, into a separate school which still handles the vocational high school students and in addition has a fulltime enrollment of 941 adults.

Since 1920, when we had a small program of training for the veterans of World War I, we have trained (and in many cases retrained) thousands of men and women for business and industry in skilled occupations where critical shortages exist. During the 1930's we participated in educational training programs with the WPA, NYA, and CCC, in training and retraining of the unemployed. Relief clients were sent to us from many areas in Pennsylvania for this training and we found that even in the depression there were jobs in the midst of high unemployment, and we still believe this to be true.

Many of our courses came into being during World War II when we worked around the clock training for the Army Signal Corps, the Navy, and the war industries that were desperately short of semiskilled, skilled, and technical personnel in the mechanical and electronic fields.

All through these years we have been very much interested in the training and retraining of the physically handicapped adults. Here we are probably the largest facility for such training in the United States. Many States regularly send their handicapped and blind students to us for this training when they are unable to find suitable training facilities in their own States.

We enrolled disabled veterans of World War II before Congress passed the GI bill in 1946. Naturally when this bill was passed we saw quite an influx of veteran students, both disabled and nondisabled.

We presently are offering courses in the following fields: aviation mechanics, automotive, diesel, heavy construction equipment, carpentry and building construction, wood and metal pattern making, electrical construction, industrial electronics, radio and television, welding, sheet metal, machine shop, toolmaking, plumbing, masonry, business, distributive education, agriculture, architectural drafting, mechanical drafting, structural drafting, tool-and-die design, office appliance repair, industrial power sewing, sign painting, neon sign fabrication, letterpress printing, and offset lithography. Some of these courses are on a craftsman basis and others prepare for higher technical occupations. Much of this equipment has been secured from Government surplus, for which we will be eternally grateful.

We maintain close relationships with business and industry. We always have, because we are not merely training our students-we are training them for existing jobs; we are not merely giving courseswe are giving courses designed for the needs of today's industries and they are continually being modified as the requirements of industry change.

While our adult courses are on a post-high-school level, they do not lead to a college degree, nor do they carry any college transfer credit at the present time. They do, however, lead to jobs.

Our present adult full-time (30 hours per week) enrollment is as follows:

232

Public Law 550 veterans.
Public Law 610 veterans.
Public Law 634 veterans.
Physically handicapped civilians-
Recent high school graduates and others.
Foreign students_-
Blind----

30

8 234 402 18 5

929

Total ---Since the beginning of the World War II GI bill, we have enrolled 6,681 veterans of all types. Of this number 1,138 have had serviceconnected disabilities, including the totally blind.

We are proud of the veteran students we have had and now have enrolled. Most of them have proven to be excellent students. While we have not kept accurate records of the placement of all of our veterans, I can say that since January 1, 1957, we have graduated 735 veterans and all, to the best of our knowledge, have been placed or secured jobs on their own, in the occupation for which they were trained or in an occupation related to their training.

To the best of our knowledge every disabled veteran whom we have trained in our school has been placed in a position in the occupation for which he was trained or in a related occupation. This statement

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includes the totally blind veterans we trained in production machine operation. This statement may easily be checked by contacting the Veterans Administration office in Wilkes-Barre, Pa., through which oflice all veterans enrolled in our school are processed.

The veterans we have had have applied themselves diligently to their studies. They have not been coming to school to collect checks from the Government. The Public Law 550 veterans feel that their educational allotment which is paid to them after they start to school is “their” money to pay their school costs and room and board. Since this money is usually insufficient to pay all costs and it costs them an additional sum of money beyond this allotment, they feel that they must “take home” some learning each day. In some cases, if the school did not live up to their expectations, they transferred to another school that did. The Korean Public Law 550 bill was an improvement over the World War II Public Law 346 bill to this respect.

In our local State employment office there were in March 1959, 4,200 people registered as unemployed. Of these, 1,902 were veterans. In the State of Pennsylvania as of January 31, 1959, there were 446,754 unemployed people. This was one-tenth of the unemployment in the United States. Of this number, 128,115 were unemployed veterans. We do not know what percentage of these veterans have no educational entitlement under the GI bill, but we may safely assume that a very large number of them lack the skills which are the passports to jobs in modern industry. Moreover, unless they soon receive the training necessary toward acquiring these skills, it will be too late, because as time goes on they will take on obligations of marriage and family, which will make it virtually impossible for them to gain the education they need to obtain worthwhile employment, and thus raise their economic level above that of the unskilled laborer for which we are seeing a marked declining need in the employment picture.

I should like to mention a survey I completed in June 1959 for the Pennsylvania Department of Labor and Industry. I found that in Pennsylvania with one-tenth of the unemployment of the United States in January 1959, we had jobs available. Through a survey of the 14 major labor market areas of Pennsylvania I compiled a list of 228 occupations for which there were jobs open, and 197 of these occupations were seeking people with less than college training but with very definite skills. All of these occupations were listed with the Pennsylvania State Employment Service. Jobs are going begging in the midst of serious unemployment. But, I emphasize they are skilled jobs—jobs for which prior training or experience is a "must."

The answer surely is in training our unskilled, and perhaps in retraining those among our unemployed whose skills have become less important to our economy due to the swift changes that are taking place in our industries as a result of technological advancements and automation.

Permit me to turn to the economic aspects of the situation. I speak only of Pennsylvania. From 1950 to 1958, a matter of 8 years, the taxpayers of this State paid almost $113 billion in unemployment compensation. During these same years, a further $870 million was

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paid in direct relief by the department of public assistance. I could not attempt to calculate the loss to the State and the Nation by this state of affairs. An unemployed citizen pays few taxes. He takes from the pot rather than contributing to it. The skill of the worker is in a very real sense a brick in the foundation upon which the prosperity of our Nation is built. We are greatly concerned about our unemployment problem in Pennsylvania. We know the occupations we need to train for; we have surveyed the unemployed people and find that 65 percent of them are interested in learning a new occupation or further updating in their skills. We inventoried our educational facilities and the numbers that can be accommodated but we simply do not seem to be able to find the money that we need to do the job. We are hoping for some assistance from the National Congress in this problem.

I believe that unless we educate our youth to their capacity, continually upgrade the skills of our present workers, and retrain those persons whose skills have become obsolete in our scientific and technical society, we will continually be faced with an ever-increasing expenditure for public welfare.

We today are quite concerned with the numbers of our superior students that have been found are not continuing their education beyond the high school. Minnesota found, for example, of the 3,368 seniors in the class of 1950 whose test scores placed them in the top 15 percent of their class, more than 1,000 did not attend college.

This Nation cannot afford the loss of many of our best minds by not carrying through with their training and education beyond the high school. We need them in our skilled occupations and in our technical fields. The extension of the veterans' entitlements which you are considering is one method by which this country can educate further those who serve their country, whether in war or peace. Not every veteran wants or needs an educational entitlement, but there are those who do want it and do need it.

We hear comments by some people that Federal aid will lead to Federal control of our schools. I have never heard such a comment concerning any veterans' education benefits.

I believe that because of the interruption by compulsory military training, many of our post-Korean veterans fail to continue their education or vocational training beyond high school. This represents a great loss to their families, communities, States, and to the Nation. It is not only a great loss financially to them personally, but to their country as well. The increased income tax alone, which would normally be received because they would be employed at a higher pay scale in higher job classifications, would be enough for this entire program alone in only a few years. We believe this when we retrain and educate the physically handicapped, and if it is true for them, it should be also true for this group of nondisabled young veterans.

These young men and women would also contribute to the semiskilled, skilled, technical, and scientific manpower so badly needed in this country. Let us look at the facts: In one small aspect of our skilled manpower situation the U.S. Department of Labor indicates a need for 2 million graduates a year from apprentices to journeymen; in 1957 only 28, 748 were graduated and 14,771 in the first 6 six months of 1958. It is also predicted by the U.S. Department of Labor that 26

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