The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions by members of the committee? Mr. McGREGOR. I notice in your statement you said you thought this was the only proposal that had any chance of being put into effect. What would lead you to make that statement? Is there some other proposal you may have considered which might be possible for Congress to O.K.? Mr. Fox. I have heard about the soil-conservation program, although I have been unable to find out very little about it. However, as near as I can find out, it requires farmers to put up part of the cost. We, down in our country, do not believe that we will be able to get it, for the simple reason that we have numerous landlords down there, and so forth, and I think that this program right here is our only hope for salvation. If we did get the soil-conservation program-we are getting more soil conservation conscious all the time in that country, but, gentlemen, that is going to take 10 or 15 years to get all of that done and we haven't got that long to wait if we want to save our fertile valley out in the Neosho. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. (Statement submitted by Mr. Fox follows:) My name is George A. Fox. I live at Chetopa, Kans., and am president of the Chetopa State Bank. I am here representing especially the lower part of the Neosho Valley in Kansas. The lower section of the Neosho Valley has a different flood problem than the upper part. The valley is wider and flatter. The fall of the river is less, and the water moves more slowly and stays on the land much longer. Many levee districts have been formed, and levees built. These levees however are not coordinated and are not built to any definite plan. They are of varying heights and styles. Many of them are far too close to the river bank. The result is that nearly every flood reaches or tops some of them, usually with much damage to the levees as well as destruction of crops and property. The Congress at nearly every session appropriates money for the repair of the damaged levees. The lower part of the valley will not receive as much benefit from the dams as the upper part. But with the dams in operation a well-planned system of levees with the necessary height and floodway can be erected without fear that they will be washed out or damaged every time the river gets up. Levees would not need to be so high, and would cost a lot less and could be built to stay. The reservoirs and levees would almost entirely remove the flood gamble on crops. Conservation pools in the four reservoirs also would make possible streamside irrigation for many acres in time of drought, which would be of definite benefit to the lower valley. The rich bottom land in Cherokee and Labette Counties have been flooded as much as 60 days in a year, making it impossible to raise any kind of crop. The reservoirs would not prevent all floods, but they certainly would help in lowering the height and shortening the duration. In Neosho County, Lewis Hatcliff, St. Paul farmer, made a spot check on six sections of average farm land. Others secured definite figures from practically every part of the flooded valley in the county. Mr. Hatcliff's figures the value of crops lost on six sections at $92,744 or $15,457 per section. Estimating the river bottom 30 miles long and 3 miles wide in Neosho County, makes a total loss in crops alone of $1,391,130. On the same basis the figures show $13,680 loss in livestock, and $141,750 other losses for a $1,546,560 farm loss alone in Neosho County. Add to this loss to Chanute and Erie, and damage to railroads, oil wells, industries, retail stores, small factories, wells, etc., and the total for Neosho County alone according to estimates by informed men of good judgment, the total reaches about $2,500,000 in one county. Repairs and new construction necessitated by flood damage to State and county highways is a tremendous drain on highway funds, always short. The State highway department, Roy Cox, director, reported that the costs of the three floods on the Neosho alone in the 52 weeks from April 1944 to April 1945 cost the State highway department $71,219.47. The July 1948 flood, although higher, did not last so long, but its cost was also high. These highway losses do not include damage to county, township, and city roads. Neither do they include loss through delays, detours, etc., to those using the roads in floodtime. Nor is the loss of business, etc., counted. The county engineer of Neosho County reports 125 miles of roads in the Neosho bottoms and that cost of maintenance of gravel roads in the bottom is double that in other sections of the county. The floods wash gravel off the grade and fill drainage ditches. Silt is deposited on road. Road bed is softened so it requires extra attention. Culverts washed out or damaged. He figures the extra cost at $93,750 a year in the bottoms. The Neosho zigzags diagonally across the county and has a fall of about 14 foot to the mile. The Neosho River runs approximately 35 miles through Labette and Cherokee County, Kans., with a flood area averaging 5 miles wide through the entire area, comprising a total acreage of 108,500 acres that were completely inundated during the 1948 flood. This flood had a direct bearing on 1,000 or more families living in this particular area, and covered and closed 3 national highways in Cherokee and Labette Counties. The main artery of traffic across southern Kansas, Highway No. 166 was closed during the 1948 flood for 7 days and in the Cherokee and Labette County area there were over 50 families who were forced to leave their farms taking with them their livestock and other personal property as best they could. The CHAIRMAN. Colonel, while the next witness is coming around, in this Grand Neosho River and its tributaries project, Eightieth Congress, House Document No. 442, the estimated cost of these four reservoirs was given at $18,977,000. What did you give as the total estimated cost today? Colonel GEE. $36,200,000 total cost. The CHAIRMAN. In other words, that is the estimated cost as of this date. Colonel GEE. Yes, sir, 1948. The CHAIRMAN. And if you have the same decline in the cost of construction from now until the time these reservoirs and dams are built, why, it would get to more nearly the estimate, the original estimate. Colonel GEE. That is correct. The CHAIRMAN. You didn't make reference to the original cost at the time of the report in the statement this morning, did you? Colonel GEE. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. We would like for you to do that. That will help us out. Put them together and give us the reasons of why the difference. Mr. McGREGOR. Colonel, how long do you think it will take before the decline could be effective to go from $32,000,000 construction costs down to $18,000,000? Colonel GEE. I can give you my own personal opinion on that. I don't think anyone in this room will live long enough to see that time [laughter]. Mr. McGREGOR. That is all. The CHAIRMAN. Your next witness, Mr. Redmond. Mr. REDMOND. The next statement will be from Mayor Jacobs of Council Grove. While he is coming around, I would like to say that in 1908, the Department of Agriculture made a survey of the Neosho and discussed levees, and in the 308 report, levees were suggested for, I think, 14 towns along the river. Those have been the only surveys in the last 50 years. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. STATEMENT OF HON. EDMOND T. JACOBS, MAYOR OF THE CITY OF COUNCIL GROVE, KANS. The CHAIRMAN. Give us your name, place of residence, and the interests you represent. Mr. JACOBS. My name is E. T. Jacobs. I live at Council Grove, Kans. The CHAIRMAN. Where is that with respect to these dams? Mr. JACOBS. It is the upper dam, and our town is 1 mile from the proposed location of the upper dam. The CHAIRMAN. Below it or above it? Mr. JACOBS. Below it. The CHAIRMAN. Very well, sir, you may proceed. Mr. JACOBS. We are 1 mile from the junction of the Neosho and Mungers Creek. We are subject to "flash" floods, and that is our trouble. The river divides our town. Part of it is on one side, part on the other. One hundred percent of our business buildings are in the flood area and have been flooded many, many times from 1903 up to the present time. I have lived there all my life. I have seen the floods. I have personal knowledge of the loss of life and the hundreds of thousands of dollars loss in property. The notice that we get from these streams when they are going to run over is very small. Sometimes we have the fire-alarm system in our town, the same as in Mr. Carpenter's town. The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you just a question which, I think, might help us. What is the normal low-water discharge of the Neosho River in the town where you live? Mr. JACOBS. The normal low water? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. How wide and deep is it? Mr. JACOBS. I would say sometimes it is 2 feet, sometimes it is 40 feet or more. The CHAIRMAN. Sometimes 2 feet deep and sometimes 40 feet deep? Mr. JACOBS. Yes. Sometimes it depends on the rainfall we have. We depend on that for our water supply. We built a lake because the water was not adequate for our city. We have a city of 3,000, approximately, and we couldn't depend on that low water there to supply the town, and we spent $300,000 to build a dam, a lake, about 4 miles from our city, and that was at the taxpayers' expense-I mean bond issue from that little community. That was completed 7 years ago. In the 7 years since its completion, we have spent $30.000 more making repairs to that dam, which is sort of a burden on our little community. The CHAIRMAN. That is for water supply purposes. The CHAIRMAN. All right, sir. Mr. JACOBS. We also spent $125,000 constructing a series of dikes through our town. The dikes are inadequate to carry rain. We have a volume of water to carry, because it comes so fast and on such short notice. Well, we took this water through the town. Then they dump it on all these farmers down below, and it has been quite a terrific thing to them. It has caused them floods when we really didn't have a flood in our town. The CHAIRMAN. Are your dikes maintained at present through your town? Mr. JACOBS. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. How high are they, the average height? Mr. JACOBS. I would say 25 feet. The CHAIRMAN. Twenty-five feet high on each side? The CHAIRMAN. How long? Mr. JACOBS. They run clear through the town, from the north end of our town to the south part of our town, the south edge. The CHAIRMAN. Do you get into a gorge or something where the water converges between those or goes behind? Mr. JACOBS. No. Any time the water goes over the dike, then we have a flood. The CHAIRMAN. I imagine if it went over a 25- or 30-foot dike, you would have floods. Mr. JACOBS. I guess the flood stage must be 35 feet. The CHAIRMAN. What I am asking you, sir: You say they just extend through your town. Mr. JACOBS. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. How do you get the water to come into those dikes if there are no dikes above your town? Mr. JACOBS. We built them right at the north edge of the town, and we start constructing dikes where the river comes into our town. The CHAIRMAN. Now, what prevents your water from going behind it? Mr. JACOBS. Nothing. The CHAIRMAN. And it goes Mr. JACOBS. It goes out behind the dikes lots of times. The CHAIRMAN. Does it come down through your town? Mr. JACOBS. That is right. That is when we have the floods; yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. I see. Go ahead. Mr. JACOBS. That is as near as I can explain it to you. The CHAIRMAN. Well, it isn't very clear, but go right ahead. Mr. JACOBS. It cost us about $125,000 to build, and we enjoy about the highest tax rate of any little community in the State of Kansas. I don't think any other community has a higher tax rate than we have, on account of the bond issue that we have had. The CHAIRMAN. In other words, what you are trying to say is you have done your level best to protect yourself against floods. Mr. JACOBS. And we are out of money. The CHAIRMAN. And you want some protection and you favor this project? Mr. JACOBS. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. Anything else? Mr. JACOBS. I think that is all; only this statement that I will leave here. The CHAIRMAN. We will be glad to have your statement. (Statement submitted by Mr. Jacobs follows:) The city of Council Grove is the county seat of Morris County and has a population of more than 3,000. The populous has lived in a horror since it was first visited by a devastating flood on June 4, 1903. During the intervening period there have been many flash floods without warning, but the worst occurred in 1906, 1929, 1938, and 1941. The major catastrophes have occurred at intervals of an average of 8 years; however, the fear, worry, and dread has perhaps, over the period of 46 years, caused as much suffering as the floods themselves, as with floods, the same as earthquakes, there is definitely no apparent regularity nor forewarning. The facts are that 100 percent of the business district of the city is in the flood area, and 75 percent of the homes. The property loss alone has at times reached an excess of $150,000 in one flood. The thing that particularly and significantly worries the families is that the city was not flooded until 1903, and that the worst flood of all occurred in 1941. There has been a continuous progressive severity and intensity of the floods over the period of years. Property loss is, to a degree, measurable, but the loss of life is not, and in one of the floods three lives were lost in the night and one father lost his life in attempting to save his daughter. Therefore, the concern and dread of the people is not a myth but is truly an actuality. Over the period of years many families have spent days and nights on their housetops after crawling through their attics and cutting holes in their roofs. Others have been in trees and whatever other places of temporary safety that may have been available. The floods creep upon the city without warning, the same as a beast or a monster in the night, and the flash floods have trapped people in their homes without even as much as 5 minutes warning. Walls of water have moved upon the city caused by excessive rains that have occurred several miles to the north, west, and east. The severity of the flash floods actually occur at points south of the junction of the Neosho River and Munkres Creek. This total drainage being from 250 square miles. The waters culminating from the two is far in excess of control and even realization unless one has actually encountered it. The city of Council Grove is located approximately 1 mile south of the junction of the two streams. The city and its people have done everything possible to control and lessen the flood menace, but naturally has found itself limited to its corporate jurisdiction and the extent of its own finances, and is faced with the fact that major control remedies are essential. A fire will confine itself to an area, or at least a city, but floodwaters such as we have here move on and on with the same horrors and devastating dreadful results to the communities below. Therefore, the city of Council Grove cannot be considered entirely selfish because it fully realizes that the measures that alleviate our worries will do the same thing for the communities and cities below us in the Neosho Valley. Respectfully submitted. EDMOND T. JACOBS, Mayor, for the City of Council Grove. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Redmond, your next witness, please. Mr. REDMOND. The next witness is Frank Stillman, a railroad man, from Council Grove. The CHAIRMAN. Is that the same Council Grove? Mr. REDMOND. Yes, sir; it is the same town. STATEMENT OF FRANK P. STILLMAN, EMPLOYEE OF THE Mr. STILLMAN. My name is Frank P. Stillman. I am an employee of the Missouri Pacific Railroad. The CHAIRMAN. Are you in favor of this project? Mr. STILLMAN. I certainly am, and I am here to represent some 220 employees and their families, and 72 percent of them own their homes. As Mr. Jacobs explained to you, the river runs through our town, and when this water breaks over the dikes up above the town, it floods our eastern section of the town. |