Colonel GEE. I do not know. Beyond the rights-of-way and the maintenance, I know of none, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, the rights-of-way for what?

Colonel GEE. For canals where necessary.

The CHAIRMAN. You have got the canals there and you are just rehabilitating them?

Colonel GEE. I believe there will be some new canals required, sir. The CHAIRMAN. They furnish the rights-of-way for those? Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that the usual extent of local contribution in reclamation works?

Colonel GEE. I am not familiar with the financing set-up for rec lamation projects.

The CHAIRMAN. I see.

Any further general statement now?

Colonel GEE. I believe at this point we

The CHAIRMAN. The total estimated cost of the project is how much, including the reclamation work?

Colonel GEE. About $64,000,000, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I see. Has there been any appropriation under the $3,000,000 authorization?

Colonel GEE. No appropriation to date, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the matter pending before us now is the matter of increasing the authorized appropriation for removing the silt? Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Any further statement, Colonel, with respect to that matter?

Colonel GEE. With respect to this comprehensive plan, and particularly the flood-control features of this plan, it is the recommendation of the Chief of Engineers that the limitation on appropriation be removed with respect to this project in order that both these dams may be put under construction.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any further statement that you have to make?

Colonel GEE. No. sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions by any member of the committee, either on my right or on my left?

Mr. ANGELL. Colonel, may I ask this: Has any work been done on any of the projects in this over-all plan?

Colonel GEE. No, sir.

Mr. ANGELL. What is the present authorization?

Colonel GEE. Three-and-a-half million dollars, sir.

Mr. ANGELL. The recommendation of the Corps of Engineers is now that the limitation on authorization be removed?

Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANGELL. That is all.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there other questions by other members of the committee?

Mr. MACK. Is there any power involved in these projects?

Colonel GEE. No, sir.

Mr. McGREGOR. The entire cost is $75,000,000?

Colonel GEE. No, sir; $64,100,000, I believe. My recommendation with respect to the removal of the limit on appropriations is limited to that work which is the responsibility of the Corps of Engineers.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there a representative of the Bureau of Reclamation here?

Will you, in the extension of your remarks, indicate whether or not that reclamation project that is to be rehabilitated has been completed and whether those farmers there still owe any amounts to the Government; and is there more than one existing reclamation project involved in the improvement of this general area? If so, will you state it in the extension of your remarks.

Colonel GEE. We will put a statement in there.

(The information is as follows:)

The reclamation project that is to be rehabilitated is the only existing reclamation project involved in the improvement of this area. It is an old project and has been completed for a long time. Although approximately $7,700,000 is still owed on the project, none of this money is owed to the United States.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Colonel Gee, I understood you to say there is no power in any of these dams?

Colonel GEE. That is correct, sir.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Are penstocks to be built?

Colonel GEE. It is my recollection that there is a requirement by the Federal Power Commission that there be penstocks in this Chama River Reservoir.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That means power, does it not?

Colonel GEE. Future power. There is no power authorized at the present time.

The CHAIRMAN. That is in accordance with existing law that penstocks are to be constructed, particularly where the Federal Power Commission recommends it in all dams constructed for flood control. Colonel GEE. Yes, sir; their decision in the matter is final in that regard.

The CHAIRMAN. That is under the Flood Control Act of 1939?
Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

Mr. Ferdandez, there are a number of witnesses here and we have gotten, I assume, a correct résumé of this project which has been approved, and as you probably know, the House meets at 12 o'clock this morning. We will be glad for you to make any statement that you care to make at this time and we will supplement that by calling the engineers, if you will, please, sir.

We are glad to have you and those of your people who are attending here this morning.

STATEMENT OF HON. ANTONIO M. FERNANDEZ, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO

Mr. FERNANDEZ. Mr. Chairman, Congressman Miles had expected to be here, but was unable to attend. Neither he nor I intend to make any formal statement to the committee. We do not think it is necessary, and in the interest of time I will not do so. The committee is familiar with the fact that the middle Rio Grande presents an everincreasing flood problem, and that every spring we are faced with the danger of destruction by floods, so much so that the State has

undertaken to appropriate direct funds to assist in the building of levees and other temporary protective works. This very spring $150,000 has already been expended by the State from direct State appropriations, and a good deal more through other indirect funds, in its efforts to guard against these floods. The people up and down the river have done their part, but obviously they cannot cope with the problem.

I want to present Col. R. L. Harrison, vice president, Middle Rio Grande Flood Control Association, whom I am sure many members of the comminttee know. He served in the Army Corps of Engineers during the war and after the war was one of Secretary Anderson's right-hand men in the investigations which were made in Europe and Asia on the matter of food.

Colonel Harrison is here and will take charge of the witnesses who will appear before you, and he will try to expedite the matter as much as possible.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Fernandez, we are glad to have your statement, and we would be delighted for Representative Miles to appear and make any statement that he would like to make.

I am sure that there would be no objection on the part of any members of the committee to make any extension of your remarks that you would care to for the record. Also, Senator Anderson and Senator Chavez are accorded the same privilege. Both those gentlemen have expressed an interest in this project, and we know of their work in the beginning.

Colonel Harrison, we will be glad to have you appear at this time, and if you have a prepared statement you may so advise the committee. STATEMENT OF COL. R. L. HARRISON, VICE PRESIDENT, MIDDLE RIO GRANDE FLOOD CONTROL ASSOCIATION, ALBUQUERQUE, N. MEX.; ACCOMPANIED BY WESLEY NELSON, BUREAU OF RECLAMATION; JOHN BLISS, NEW MEXICO STATE ENGINEER; HUBART BALL, ENGINEER, MIDDLE RIO GRANDE CONSERVANCY DISTRICT; GORDON R. SALMON, CHIEF, DIVISION ENGINEERS, WATERSHED MANAGEMENT FOREST SERVICE, DEPARTMNT OF AGRICULTURE; J. C. DYKES, ASSISTANT CHIEF, SOIL CONSERVATION SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE; A. L. WATHEN, CHIEF ENGINEER, INDIAN SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR; BURTON DWYRE, NEW MEXICO STATE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT; GEORGE LUSK, MANAGER, ALBUQUERQUE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE; H. 0. BURSUM, JR., MAYOR OF SOCORRO, N. MEX.; H. APODACA, MAYOR, BERNALILLO, N. MEX.; DIEGO SALAZAR, MAYOR, ESPANOLA, N. MEX.; AUSTIN LOVETT, MEMBER, BOARD OF DIRECTORS, MIDDLE RIO GRANDE FLOOD CONTROL ASSOCIATION; AND JOHN P. MURPHY, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, MIDDLE RIO GRANDE FLOOD CONTROL ASSOCIATION Colonel HARRISON. Mr. Chairman, our flood-control association prepared this brief and brought these witnesses here for this hearing. If you will notice the brief, it is concise, we believe clear, and covers only the highlights of this project. It is entirely factual.

The majority of the witnesses that we have brought here are qualified engineers and they are prepared to testify on specific phases of this project that I am sure will be of interest to you gentlemen. None of us has prepared statements but we are prepared to answer any questions that you, Mr. Chairman, or members of the committee may care to ask.

The CHAIRMAN. We are glad to have you appear, as always, Colonel. You understand that as far as this committee is concerned the Congress has approved this project and they have authorized $3,500,000 for the initiation of the work; so that the matter pending here is the matter of increasing the authorization or removing the limitation entirely.

What arguments do you offer and what parts of these projects do you think should be initiated first. In the order of their initiation will you state generally for the committee

Colonel HARRISON. Mr. Chairman, we feel, of course, that it is urgent that this project be gotten under way. The flood hazard in the stream increases almost daily because of the aggradation of the channel.

The two most important phases of this project-I might show you on the map, Mr. Chairman

The CHAIRMAN. Very well, sir; there is a pointer for your convenience.

Colonel HARRISON. By far the two most important phases of this project are the two dams above Albuquerque on the Chama and Jemez, called the Chamita Dam and the Jemez Dam. However, channel rehabilitation is almost equally important. The city of San Marcial was wiped out a few years ago by flood. Dredging and channel rectification needs to be gotten under way as soon as possible to prevent the wastage of water that is now taking place which makes it impossible for New Mexico to meet its obligations to Texas under the Rio Grande Compact. Water has to be delivered to Texas annually, based on the quantity of flow at this point on the river called Otawi Bridge gaging station near Los Alamos project. The water wastage above Elephant Butte is very considerable and now has placed New Mexico in the position where we owe sufficient water-and the debit continues to increase so that in about 2 years this middle Rio Grande valley will have no water under the compact available for irrigation in the valley. That point will be reached when we owe the State of Texas 400,000 acre-feet. The debit is over 200,000 now, almost 300,000 acre-feet, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. What debit is that now?

Colonel HARRISON. It represents a failure of New Mexico to make its required water deliveries to Texas as required under the Rio Grande Compact. They gage the water up here at Otawi Bridge, and, depending on the amount of flow at this point, which is below the confluence of the Chama River and the main Rio Grande, a certain amount has to be delivered to Elephant Butte Reservoir in lower New Mexico.

The CHAIRMAN. The existing reclamation project in that area costs around $3,000,000 and is that the project that is to be rehabilitated on which the land owners still owe the Bureau of Reclamation or the Government $2,000,000?

Colonel HARRISON. I don't believe that they owe the Government anything any more.

The CHAIRMAN. Whom do they owe it to?

Colonel HARRISON. They owe it to the bondholders of this Middle Rio Grande Conservancy District that was organized back in the twenties.

The CHAIRMAN. The money for that district was not furnished out of the reclamation funds but by bond issue?

Colonel HARRISON. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they still owe $2,000,000?
Colonel HARRISON. They owe more than that.
project there is still owed more than that, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. How much would you say?

On this whole

Colonel HARRISON. I think around seven or eight million dollars is still owed. There is still that number of bonds outstanding on that project because it cost $13,000,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any other reclamation project there except that one in this area that is to be improved?

Colonel HARRISON. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The only existing project?

Colonel HARRISON. Yes, sir; the middle Rio Grande conservancy district.

The CHAIRMAN. The Middle Rio Grande Conservancy District issued bonds and

Colonel HARRISON. The RFC bought between five and six million dollars worth of these bonds. Those bonds have been retired. The CHAIRMAN. They paid those?

Colonel HARRISON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. They owe for the bonds the public bought?
Colonel HARRISON. Correct, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. About how much?

Colonel HARRISON. About seven million dollars.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any other statement now that you desire to make?

Mr. ANGELL. Are those bonds in default?

Colonel HARRISON. No, sir. Those bonds are presently current; all the obligations, both as to retirement and interest under the bonds have been paid.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Colonel; is there any other general statement that you have to make? Do you want to file this brief with the committee?

Colonel HARRISON. Yes, sir; we would like to have it inserted as part of the record in this case.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well, sir; are there any questions by any member of the committee?

Colonel Gee, before the next witness is called, I want you to turn to the Flood Control Act of 1948 and give us the language approving this project and tell us if that is available to the committee for study and whether that document has been transmitted to the Congress and whether it is available to us or not.

Colonel GEE. In Public Law 858, page 9, the comprehensive plan for the Rio Grande Basin as set forth in the report of the Chief of Engineers, dated April 5, 1948, and in the report of the Bureau of Reclamation dated November 21, 1947, all in accordance with the agreement approved by the Secretary of the Army and the Acting Secretary of the Interior, on November 21, 1947, is hereby approved