Mr. STEFAN. And how many from the United States to foreign countries?

Mr. JOHNSTONE. Approximately 1,800. I will supply the detailed breakdown by countries for the record.

Mr. STEFAN. Supply for the record at this point the number of foreign persons who have come over here under this program in 1950 and the number of Americans that went out in fiscal year 1950. Mr. JOHNSTONE. Yes, sir; I will do that.

Mr. STEFAN. How much money are we providing for you in 1951 for this program?

Mr. JOHNSTONE. Our 1951 estimate, total, was $3,507,129. That was the amount which was our initial request to the Congress. That includes the pro rata cost of the overseas missions.

Mr. STEFAN. Put in the record at this point the same information for 1951 as to what you propose to do with the $3,507,000. Mr. JOHNSTONE. I will supply that.

(The information is as follows:)

Summary of exchange of persons, 1950 and 1951 fiscal years, all categories-Continued

Mr. STEFAN. What is the grand total?

Mr. JOHNSTONE. The grand total for the regular 1951 estimate is 4,230 grants.

Mr. STEFAN. How many persons from foreign countries plan to come in here and how many United States persons are going out? The grand total is how much?

Mr. JOHNSTONE. The grand total number of grants is 4,230 for 1951, estimated.

Mr. STEFAN. You will supply the breakdown by countries?
Mr. JOHNSTONE. Yes, sir.

Mr. STEFAN. In the supplemental, you are asking for how much for 1951?

Mr. JOHNSTONE. For the 1951 supplemental we are asking for a total of $12,756,000.

Mr. Stefan. And what is the grand total number of persons?

Mr. JOHNSTONE. The grand total number of persons would be 6,013.

Mr. STEFAN. You will break that down by countries?

Mr. JOHNSTONE. Yes, sir.

Mr. STEFAN. That would be an increase of how many persons over the regular 1951?

Mr. JOHNSTONE. A little under 2,000-1,783.

Mr. STEFAN. I cannot adjust my mind to these figures.

Mr. JOHNSTONE. I think it looks like a discrepancy there.

Mr. STEFAN. There is a discrepancy there.

Mr. JOHNSTONE. I would like to explain that.

Mr. STEFAN. You are asking for $3,507,000 to service 4,200 people, but you are asking for $12,000,000 to service 1,783 additional.

Mr. JOHNSTONE. The apparent discrepancy there is due in part, first of all, to the $3,000,000 which I testified on yesterday—a little over $3,000,000-which is the dollar support for Fulbright travel grants. That is $3,040,420.

Mr. STEFAN. That is what I cannot understand-why it should cost you $8,526,000 to service 1,783 people, when you are servicing 4,230 people with $3,507,000. You see what a discrepancy that is. Certainly your costs did not go up that much; did they?

Mr. JOHNSTONE. No, sir.

Mr. ROONEY. In this proposed budget the cost goes up from $803 average cost per grant to $2,610. I think you ought to explain that to Mr. Stefan, if you can.

Mr. STEFAN. In your summary of total estimates, you have 4,230 people.

Mr. JOHNSTONE. Yes, sir.

Mr. STEFAN. And you are adding 1,783, but you are asking for $8,526,000 more and only have 1,783 more people.

Mr. JOHNSTONE. If you will look at the total of 4,230 grants, that includes the total number of grants which is inclusive of Fulbright travel grants, for which only a small amount of dollars were requested in the regular 1951 estimate. In other words, the total number of grants is not comparable to the amount of dollars which we are asking in this 1951 supplemental, because the total number of grants we showed in the table were the total grants available under the Fulbright program as purely travel grants, and we are asking in this supplemental

for an additional amount for the United States dollars to support all of those travel grants.

Mr. STEFAN. That still does not explain it. It is not good arithmetic. Your explanation to me is that you are working under a budget of $3,507,129 for the present fiscal year to service 4,230 people, but you are asking an additional $12,756,000 to service 1,783 additional people. Why does it cost $12,000,000 to service 1,700 people compared to $3,000,000 to service 4,230? That Fulbright would not explain it at all. Mr. JOHNSTONE. The amount of Fulbright grants is not included—I think I am correct in this-in the 1,783. The 1,783 figure which you see in the column under 1951 supplemental includes only those grants in non-Fulbright countries—what we call straight Smith-Mundt grants. Mr. STEFAN. Then there is a very large discrepancy here, because you cannot read that right. You told us you wanted $12,756,000 to service an additional 1,783 people.

Mr. BARRETT. I think this will be cleared up if Mr. Johnstone can provide the figures exclusive of Fulbright.

Mr. STEFAN. You are asking for $12,756,000 in addition to the $3,507,000, making a total of $16,000,000 plus, and you say you want to service 6,000 people. You want $16,000,000 to service 6,000 people when you are servicing 4,230 people for $3,500,000. Do you have some Fulbright figures? How many more are there in addition to the 1,700?

Mr. WILBER. May I interrupt? The figure of $12,756,000 does not include the pro rata cost of the overseas activity.

Mr. STEFAN. Oh, yes.

Mr. WILBER. Nor does it include the amount in the regular 1951 estimate.

Mr. STEFAN. But he told me the $3,507,000 is to service 4,230 people, and now he needs $12,756,000 to service 1,783 additional people.

Mr. WILBER. The point I wish to make clear is that we are actually asking for more than $12,756,000, because that does not include the

overseas cost.

Mr. STEFAN. Why do not we have that here in the breakdown; why do not we get the information? What is it? How much are you asking besides the $12,000,000?

Mr. MAY. The correct figure is $13,306,000.

Mr. STEFAN. To service 1,783 people in addition to the 4,000?

Mr. MAY. That is the correct total including the pro rata overseas share.

Mr. STEFAN. I cannot figure that out.

Mr. ROONEY. There is only one explanation, as I see it; that is, the pro rata cost has gone up tremendously.

Mr. STEFAN. Not that much.

Mr. JOHNSTONE. It has not gone up that much.

Mr. STEFAN. I think I can help you out; I believe I can.

How many additional Fulbright people in addition to the 1,783? Mr. JOHNSTONE. The number of Fulbright grants is 3,824 for 1951. Mr. STEFAN. Why did not you give that information to us before? Then it is not right to say you are asking $12,756,000 or $13,306,000 to service 6,000 people.

Mr. JOHNSTONE. That is the number of non-Fulbright and Fulbright grants.