the part of our people with reference to the importance and the things that need to be done.

I think, Mr. Andersen, we have really an outstanding group of technical people here. But I would also like to observe that this committee has done much to arouse the interest of the public and make them aware of the importance of conservation of our natural resources in terms of your activities, in terms of your hearings and in terms of the record that has been made here as you come in contact with these gentlemen from the Department of Agriculture.

Mr. ANDERSEN. Dr. Welch, might I recall for the record that about 8 years ago, in this very committee room, the Honorable Clifford Hope, of Kansas, testified before our subcommittee. I was chairman of this subcommittee at that time. Out of that testimony developed the small-watershed protection program, which is now one of the best thought of programs in America.

I am proud of the fact that that program had its start with the names of H. Carl Andersen and Clifford Hope on it, even though it was a pilot program.

Later, it developed into Public Law 566.

I have come to know, from my work with the Soil Conservation Service, what the operation of that program has meant to the people of America. It is because of that, that I have never been backwardnor has Mr. Natcher-in trying to secure, through this subcommittee, ample funds for the men across the table from us here today, in order that they might do a good job.

Mr. WELCH. We appreciate that, Mr. Andersen. I think that the strength of this program was visualized back in the early years by this committee

Mr. ANDERSEN. Our good chairman, Mr. Whitten, had a part in this, although he was not chairman at the time. Prior to that year, Mr. Whitten had urged upon the Congress, several times, the establishment of just such a program. The wheels of fortune put me at the head of this subcommittee at that time. I was able, along with Mr. Hope, to get that program through the House of Representatives without it having been authorized by law. I think we started something very worth while. But I do want to pay tribute here to our good chairman, Mr. Whitten, for the part he had in formulating the ideas relative to that particular program.

Mr. WELCH. I think, Mr. Chairman, if I may say so, the strength of this program lies largely in the fact that it involved local, State, and Federal interests.

Mr. ANDERSEN. You are right.

Mr. WELCH. In that way we not only draw financial support for this very excellent program but it also provides impetus for education and motivation on the part of our people which is so necessary if this program is to be successful.

Mr. ANDERSEN. I have heard Mr. Don Williams make that very statement when speaking before groups of people. The strength of this program is due to the fact that it emanates from the grassroots and comes up.

Mr. NATCHER. Mr. Andersen, certainly I join with you in the remarks you have made before this committee and as my friend, Frank Welch and all of these other gentlemen know, the American farmer has no better friend than Carl Andersen.

APPROPRIATIONS, 1961 AND ESTIMATES, 1962

I notice from the justifications that for the fiscal year 1961 the amount appropriated for conservation operations was $88,604,000; and that the request for fiscal year 1962 is $89,725,000. This, of course, is an increase of $1,121,000.

Further, from the justifications I see that for watershed protection the amount requested is $53,787,000 which is a $17,062,000 increase over the amount appropriated for the fiscal year 1961. The amount, of course, appropriated for fiscal year 1961 for this particular item was $36,725,000.

For flood prevention the amount requested is $19,463,000 which is a reduction of $107,000 below the amount appropriated for fiscal year 1961.

For the Great Plains conservation program the amount requested is $10,168,000 which is the same amount appropriated for fiscal year 1961.

At this time, we will be pleased to have general statements. Dr. Welch, do you have a general statement for the committee? Mr. WELCH. I think not, Mr. Chairman; I have nothing further. I defer to Mr. Williams and his staff to explain the projected program.

Mr. NATCHER. Mr. Williams, as you well know, the committee is always delighted to have you appear and we will be glad to hear from you at this time.

GENERAL STATEMENT

Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, gentlemen: This year, in addition to the statement which I will make available for the record, we do have some charts and photographs which we will show as we go through the testimony so that you may see some of these things illustrated.

I want to thank you for this opportunity, once again, to meet and discuss with you the budget needs of the soil and water conservation work for which the Soil Conservation Service is responsible.

All about us we see problems being created by our rapidly expanding population. None, in my estimation, is more critical than the urgent need to keep pace with this growth by a decisive and immediate program of action aimed at full-scale conservation of our soil and water resources. To be ready for the population pressures of the decades ahead, a throughgoing job must be done in the sixties. The Report of the Select Committee on National Water Resources of January 1961, notes that

Land and water resources are inseparable, and therefore watershed improvement programs are a basic and extremely important part of the Nation's overall water resources development program. Substantial increases in present programs of the Department of Agriculture will be needed in the future. The structural features of the watershed improvement programs contribute substantial benefits to flood control, pollution abatement, and many of the other functions of water resources development discussed herein.

PRESIDENT'S MESSAGES TO CONGRESS

In two recent messages to the Congress, President Kennedy has further emphasized this need. In his message of February 23, 1961, on natural resources he noted that—

Complementing larger downstream reservoirs in the control of floodwaters are the small watershed projects which are an integral part of our soil and water conservation program along with terracing, strip cropping, grass waterways, and other erosion prevention measures. Nearly 300 million of our Nation's 460 million acres of farm croplands still need these basic practices for preserving our water and soil resources.

In his farm program message of March 16, 1961, the President said further:

We have so taken soil conservation for granted in this generation that we forget it is a task which is barely underway. By June 30, 1960, the Soil Conservation Service had helped 1,301,450 farmers and ranchers to complete basic conservation plans and an additional 500,000 were being assisted. But this represents only 27 percent of all farms and ranches in soil conservation districts. Nearly three-fourths of this important job remains to be done.

I am requesting the Congress to provide the funds necessary to accelerate this program for permanent soil conservation practices and to increase our efforts for small watersheds as well. These smaller projects, now being planned and developed may well hold the key to our future water and soil requirements at a time of rapidly growing population.

CONSERVATION NEEDS INVENTORY

Since I last appeared before this subcommittee, we have completed the most comprehensive factfinding job ever undertaken by this Nation with respect to basic soil and water resources. We are now in the process of final tabulation of these data, prior to their publication by the Department of Agriculture.

Preliminary summaries from this "National Inventory of Soil and Water Conservation Needs," however, reveal some significant facts that need to be kept in mind as we consider the future Federal Government investment in soil and water conservation.

Probably the finding of most significance to the future requirements in soil and water conservation activities is this: Although there will be significant land use changes taking place as a result of the ever-increasing pressures of people on the land, little net change in acreages devoted to each of the major agricultural land uses is foreseen by 1975. Cropland acreage may be expected to decline slightly, about 2 percent. This means that any increases in farm production we obtain will be provided by more intensive use of the cultivated acreage, and by higher per-acre yields.

I would like to digress momentarily here and let you take a glimpse at two charts that illustrate the type of information obtained from the conservation needs inventory.

Mr. Young, would you explain that?

Mr. YOUNG. This map summarizes on the basis of groups of States information which we have county by county for the country over. The first bar represents cropland. The blue bar represents pasture and range lands. The green bar represents forest and woodlands. The red bar represents land going out of agriculture.

These are estimates that are made county by county by conservation needs committees. It shows that we will expect by 1975, according to the estimates made by these committees, a decrease of 10 million acres, about 2 percent in the amount of cropland. In two groups of States, the Western States, and the Intermountain States, there will be a little increase in cropland. On the other hand, every other group of States showed some estimated decline in croplands. Here

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in the northern Great Plains, the southern Great Plains, the Cornbelt States, and in the Lake States there will not be much change. There are bigger decreases in cropland contemplated in the Northeast States and in the Southeast States.

Pastureland would increase particularly here in the southern Great Plains. There would be some decreases in woodland indicated all the way around. One of the interesting estimates made by these committees is the amount of land going out of farmland. Part of it is going out of cropland, part of it out of pastureland, and part of it out of woodland. The county committees estimate that about 20 million acres will go out of agriculture by the year 1975.

This information will be summarized by States. It isn't quite complete in all the States but it will be soon. It will be available for every county.

Mr. HORAN. Mr. Chairman, can we have those charts done in black and white and included?

Mr. NATCHER. Is that possible?

Mr. WILLIAMS. We can provide them, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. NATCHER. We shall be glad to have that for the record. (The charts referred to follow :)