matters in these times that ought to be considered solely by the committee, and so, I wish you, Major Barkalow, and the other witnesses, any time that you feel that the subject of inquiry or your statement should be for executive consideration, would so indicate, and your views will be respected. You will be given an opportunity to be heard in executive session.

This statement is all right for the public, is it?

Major BARKALOW. Yes, sir; I believe it is, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. If there is any confidential matter, let us know. Major BARKALOW. All I have to say, Mr. Chairman, is that the War Department favors this bill. It suggests that an amendment be made in section 3, line 22, after the words "leaseholds of," to include the military personnel and their dependents, and Government employees and their dependents.

Mr. CULKIN. Where is that, Mr. Witness?

Major BARKALOW. That is on page 4 of H. R. 4088, line 22, section 3.

Mr. CULKIN. Now read it again, please.

Major BARKALOW. To insert after the word "of," these words: "military personnel and their dependents, Government employees and their dependents," and then it reads on, "essential materials for the national defense" and so forth.

Mr. CULKIN. I did not understand whom you represent.
Major BARKALOW. The War Department.

Mr. CULKIN. What is your position there?

Major BARKALOW. I am in the Transportation Division of the Office of the Quartermaster General.

Mr. CULKIN. What is your background? What experience have you had? Have you been in the service for some time?

Major BARKALOW. I am a Reserve officer called to active duty. I have been in and out of the service since the last war.

Mr. CULKIN. And your title is what?

Major BARKALOW. I am a major.

Mr. CULKIN. No; I do not mean your military title, but what is your title in the Department?

Major BARKALOW. I am chief of the investigation branch of the Transportation Division.

Mr. CULKIN. And you speak with the authority of the Department, do you?

Major BARKALOW. Yes, sir, I do. I have been delegated to attend this meeting.

Mr. CULKIN. Yes.

Major BARKALOW. I would like to add that this proposal has not cleared, or had not when I left the office, the Bureau of the Budget. Hence whatever I say does not involve any commitment as to the relationship of this proposal to the program of the President.

Mr. CULKIN. You have studied this question yourself?

Major BARKALOW. Yes, sir, I have.

Mr. CULKIN. Are you a member of any policy-making group in the War Department?

Major BARKALOW. No; I am not.

Mr. CULKIN. That is all.

Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman, May I ask a question?

The CHAIRMAN. All right. Mr. OLIVER. Do I understand, Major, that the Quartermaster General is supporting H. R. 4088 and H. J. Res. 167?

Major BARKALOW. I could not commit him as to H. J. Res. 167, because it has just been put in my hands.

Mr. OLIVER. The point of difference, as I see it, or the difference between these two bills, the primary difference is that H. J. Res. 167 provides for requisitioning vessels, and the other bill provides for acquisition through negotiation. Your Department does not wish to place itself on record as being either for or against requisitioning?

Major BARKALOw. No, sir; I have no authority to speak on that. Mr. OLIVER. In other words, your Department is interested in getting more tonnage, is that the point?

Major BARKALOW. We need the tonnage, yes, sir.

Mr. OLIVER. Regardless, perhaps, of how that tonnage is acquired, but you do not wish to commit yourself on the method of getting it? Major BARKALOW. No; I do not.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions? Are there any persons here who desire to testify who are not from the Departments? If they are, I want to hear them first. Has Mr. Christenson come in yet?

All right, Commander F. F. Reynolds, representing the Chief of Naval Operations.

STATEMENT OF LT. COMDR. F. F. REYNOLDS, REPRESENTING THE CHIEF OF NAVAL OPERATIONS, UNITED STATES NAVY

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. Mr. Chairman, and members of the Committee, I have here a letter from the Acting Secretary of the Navy addressed to the Chairman with respect to this bill, and if it pleases the Chairman I will read it, or the clerk may read it.

The CHAIRMAN. You may read it, but subject to the admonition that I gave a while ago that if there is any matter in there that ought to be for the consideration of the Committee in executive session it may be omitted.

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. No; there is nothing confidential in the letter. (Reading:)

The bill H. R. 4088, to authorize the United States Maritime Commission to charter and purchase available vessels of domestic and foreign registry and to provide necessary insurance and reinsurance for such vessels and their operations, was referred to the Navy Department by your committee with request for a report.

The purpose of the bill is as stated in its title.

The need for the vessels contemplated by this bill will unquestionably increase. In order that the Maritime Commission may have the necessary authority and freedom of action to obtain vessels on short notice so that they may be allocated to the service where they will be of the greatest assistance in the national-defense program, the Navy Department recommends the enactment of the bill H. R. 4088.

In view of the fact that your committee has requested a report on this bill not later than April 17, 1941, there has been insufficient time to submit this recommendation to the Bureau of the Budget.

Sincerely yours,

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions?

RALPH A. BARD, Acting.

Mr. OLIVER. There is a question I have, Mr. Chairman, and I should like to repeat the question previously asked and ask if the Navy

Department takes any position with reference to the method of procurement of these vessels.

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. We are primarily interested in procurement as a general phase rather than the actual details of pro

curement.

Mr. OLIVER. I mean so far as the methods proposed in these two bills are concerned, one by requisition and the other by negotiation, the Department takes no position on that?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I will say with reference to House Joint Resolution 167 that, as the members of the committee know, the House was in recess until Monday. The communication of the President was submitted to the House on Monday and was referred to this committee on Tuesday, and I immediately introduced the bill. The print of it was not received until yesterday, so that there has not been time to call on the various departments for reports specifically reporting on House Joint Resolution 167.

Mr. OLIVER. You have heard the amendment proposed by the Quartermaster General's representative?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. Yes.

Mr. OLIVER. Has the Navy any special opinion with reference to a similar amendment to provide for naval personnel?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. To a proposed amendment to provide for transportation of naval personnel on board such vessels? I think the enlargement of the utility of the vessels, which seems to be restricted to material, I think it would be a beneficial enlargement to add that personnel may be transported on such vessels which are acquired.

Mr. OLIVER. Would it make any difference as to the safety of personnel on these ships, of the ships where requisitioned, in other words, as contrasted with procurement through negotiation?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. Well, as a general statement I cannot speak for the Maritime Commission, of course, but the longer we have, the greater opportunity we have to make a survey of the situation with respect to crews, and that sort of thing, and the safety of the vessels and the general conditions, the better off we are in that particular respect.

Mr. OLIVER. I was not thinking so much of the safety of the vessel itself and the facilities as I was of possible attack on the vessels if they were requisitioned contrary to national law, or whatever it may be. I meant would there be any difference, so far as the safety of the personnel is concerned, concerning the possibility of attack by foreign nations on these ships if they were requisitioned under this program as contrasted with negotiating for them?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. Offhand, without any attempt to consider your question, I should say that there possibly would not be any difference. I do not know what would be the attitude of any hostile powers toward such action; and, of course, that is anybody's guess.

Mr. OLIVER. In other words, you have no opinion on that matter that you care to express to the committee?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. Not at this time; no.
Mr. OLIVER. That is all.

Mr. CULKIN. You represent the Navy Department?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. Yes, sir; I represent the Navy Department.

Mr. CULKIN. What is your capacity?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. I am connected with naval transportation of the War Plans Section.

Mr. CULKIN. What section?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. The War Plans Section.

Mr. CULKIN. War planes?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. No; plans.

Mr. CULKIN. War plans?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. War plans; yes, sir.

Mr. CULKIN. You have been in the service some time?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. Yes, sir; I am a graduate of the Naval Academy. I am a veteran of the past war, and I am back again in this war.

Mr. CULKIN. Are you part of the policy-making group there in the Navy Department?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. I will let you decide that by saying that I just completed the Manual of Instructions for the operation of the naval transportation service under emergency conditions. Mr. CULKIN. That is very commendatory work, but do you help form policies there?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. No; I would not say that. I could recommend, but I have no final action on that, naturally.

Mr. CULKIN. This bill is broad in its legal aspects.

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. I Would like to add that in reviewing the bill I have had the benefit of the mimeographed comments and suggestions of the Maritime Commission with respect to their suggested changes in this bill, and in general I am authorized to say here, by endorsements on letters which I have drawn up, the Navy Department, where they touch each other, in general, approve the suggested changes of the Maritime Commission.

Mr. CULKIN. What I am getting at is that under the Oliver bill there is a question of acquiring these ships by contract or charter. Do you anticipate any difficulty in dealing with these various de facto governments? Do you think there is any legal problem there?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. I have nothing at hand that would lead me to say that; no, sir.

Mr. BRADLEY. What about the situation in Greenland right today? Mr. CULKIN. Let me finish, please.

Mr. BRADLEY. Yes.

Mr. CULKIN. Do you anticipate any difficulty?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. No, sir; not offhand, I do not see anything at the present moment.

Mr. CULKIN. You do recognize, of course, that whatever is left of international law in the world does apply to this situation?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. Personally I do not think there is much left of international law in the world today.

Mr. CULKIN. Do you think it is our function to disregard what may be left?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. No, sir; but I do think that it is our function to anticipate and provide as far as, I might say, we legally can, for the demands which may be placed on us.

Mr. CULKIN. That is, as far as we legally can?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. Yes, sir; by that I mean whatever acts Congress may pass in giving the various Departments and their agents the requisite authority.

Mr. CULKIN. You do not anticipate any difficulty by reason of these governments that have a dual existence? You are familiar with that question, I suppose?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. Yes, sir; I know what you are referring to, certainly.

Mr. CULKIN. That is consoling.

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. No, sir; I do not anticipate any trouble from that angle because, perhaps, the home government is not in a position to make trouble.

Mr. CULKIN. You think the de facto and the de jure governments will lie down in peace like the lion and the lamb on this question? Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. I believe they will.

Mr. CULKIN. They will?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. Personally I believe they will. Mr. CULKIN. All right.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions?

Mr. BRADLEY. You say you do not expect to have any difficulty with foreign nations, and yet may I point out to you the situation existing in Greenland right today. We make a deal, presumably in good faith, and I have no reason to doubt but what we acted in good faith with the Danish Minister to the United States, and yet the deal is repudiated by the Danish Government. I do not know whether it was under duress or not, but it was repudiated by the Danish Government.

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. If that is what you mean by "difficulty" undoubtedly that would come up.

Mr. BRADLEY. What are these boats for?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. As I get it from the Maritime Commission, and the Maritime Commission's comment here, which is a very clear expression, it is to replace the various vessels which have been withdrawn from essential trade routes, taken over by the Army and Navy or put on other routes, which at the present time are more important than their use on trade routes.

Mr. BRADLEY. Have you any assurance to give this committee that if we take over these boats, either through purchase or through requisition, that they will not be immediately sent over to Great Britain, we will say?

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. No; I could not answer anything like that. That is beyond my province, to answer anything of that nature. Of course, I do not anticipate a question of that kind coming

up.

Mr. BRADLEY. This resolution, referring now to the request of the President, says we are to take over these boats for national defense. The CHAIRMAN. I think the witness has stated, Mr. Bradley, before you came in, that he was addressing his remarks to H. R. 4088. H. J. Res. 167 had not been referred to him, and he was not commenting on it.

Lieutenant Commander REYNOLDS. I have not had an opportunity to read that.

Mr. BRADLEY. This same question applies to H. R. 4088, as it is supposed to be a defense measure. I am just asking whether there is any thought in any one of these bills that we shall take over German