and loan associations. There is $9,000,000,000 of this money in building and loan associations in the United States, that is loaned practically exactly as we loan it. If you have noticed-you live in Virginia?

Senator MORRISON. North Carolina.

Mr. THOMPSON. North Carolina; a very fine State. I have been over there a few times. Perhaps you have noticed the hardware stores that have gone out of business. You can go to these country towns and see hardware stores that are out of business, and lumber yards that are out of business, and cement factories that are out of business, and contractors that are out of business. You wonder why that is, unless you know-and many of you do know. The hardware stores are out of business because the building and loan associations are out of business. The lumber yards are out of business because the building and loans associations are out of business. They will tell you that themselves. The building and loan associations had more to do with the prosperity, not only of labor and the industries mentioned above, but they also put more taxable property on the map in these towns, than any other agency. Of course, these things can be overdone. That has to be taken care of, and that is what this bill is going to do.

Senator WATSON. What percentage of homes in Topeka, Kans., have been built with the help of building and loan associations? Mr. THOMPSON. I did know just how many houses.

Senator WATSON. Can you state approximately?

Mr. THOMPSON. Over 4,000 houses.

Senator WATSON. What percentage is that of the home building in Topeka?

Mr. THOMPSON. I would say it is 75 per cent.

Senator WATSON. Mr. Thompson, is there anything further you care to say about this bill?

Mr. THOMPSON. Only this. I have the thing so thoroughly in my system, and believe in it so religiously, that I would like to tell you why I am in favor of this bill, if it would not take too much of your time, and why I am so tenaciously in favor of anything that would aid building and loan associations, or do them any good.

Senator WATSON. Go ahead. That is what you are here for. Mr. THOMPSON. I started to tell you that I firmly believe that that is what has put so many lumber yards out of business, so many hardware concerns out of business, and that is the reason why so many bricklayers, carpenters, and laboring men of all classes are out of employment. I think I have all the evidence that is necessary. All a person needs to do is to go around to these towns and ask what is the matter.

Of course, we did not do all the business, but we did keep in business, I am sure, hundreds and thousands of the smaller merchants, the smaller hardware concerns, the small lumber yards, and so forth, that were getting along and making a living-not getting rich, but making a living, getting along, paying for their own homes, and paying their bills, because we were collecting this money from the small saver, as we do all over the United States, and turning it into the place where it went in permanent taxes, and into preserving a home for the American citizen. I believe we ought

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to be put in the missionary class, when we have $9,000,000,000 doing that, and practically all of it is doing that. We are doing something for somebody.

Three insurance men called on me before I left Topeka. They heard that I was coming here. I am vice president of an insurance company, myself, and I am a director in three different banks. Two of them are big banks, and I have always been connected with banks since I have been doing business. So, I think I can talk without any prejudice. I said to these men, "Now, you are against this bill." One of these insurance men was a good friend of mine. I said to him, "You are against this bill. I want you to tell me why.' He went on and told me why, and when he got through, I said, "Let us both admit that we are selfish, that you want something, and I want something. All my testimony is in favor of it, and all yours is going to be against it. Let us admit, now, without any argument, that we are both selfish." I said to him, "Did your insurance company ever go out and find a small fellow who wanted a home, some man who had $500 and a lot? Did you ever go out and find that man, and take him over to the lot, and draw a plan of a house free of charge, and help him in every way you could to get a home? Did you ever do that?" He said, "That is not our business." I said, "No; but that is what the building and loan people do. That is the way I got my first home. They are doing that by the thousands all over these United States of ours."

I said, "Here is what you do "-and we are not enemies.

I would let all these people in, so far as I am concerned. All I want is a place where we can go. Let the insurance companies in, and let everybody in. I do not care who gets in. I said, "Here is what we do. We are the hotbed for you folks. We plant the bulbs. We go out and find the fellow who has no home, and help him to build a home. When he builds it up to where it is a good loan, you come along and pluck it."

I am not angry at you for that, but I do not like it. That is what we do. We raise the stuff for these fellows to harvest.

Senator WATSON. Mr. Thompson, I was requested by one of the gentlemen present to ask you this question: Will you ask Mr. Thompson how, with all these withdrawal requests, he can borrow enough to meet them and also make new loans?

Mr. THOMPSON. It is very obvious to anybody who is familiar with building and loan associations or banks or any like institutions, that when everybody wants his money, no one can borrow enough to pay them off. But here is what the building and loan is. We have an income that comes in-interest and dues of $450,000 to $500,000 a month. When we shut off loaning, that is what we pay the withdrawals with, and we have always been able to do that, but we do not know how long we are going to be able to do it unless we have a place of this kind where we can rediscount some mortgages. If we had such a place, then the thing would take care of itself. We have been able to do that, and I hope we will continue to be able to do so, but you can not go ahead and do business if you are paying all your income out on withdrawals, especially when people need it-and they need it now. It is not necessary for me to offer testimony, or for anybody else to offer testimony to prove the fact that the people now need every nickel they can

get. I know lots of people who have had good jobs, and who have paid their houses down to half. It does not make any difference whether a man has a $10,000 mortgage, or a $1,000 mortgage, if his job is gone, and it takes everything he can sell about the place to keep some food in the pantry. It is not a question, now, of a man's ability. It is a question of everything being shut down, and no money coming into the fellow's pocket.

This bill would help us over these spots, and I think it ought to be a permanent bill.

Are you through with me, Senator?

Senator WATSON. Yes; if you are through, I am.
Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you.

Senator WATSON. Thank you very much, Mr. Thompson.

Senator WATSON. I have requests here from everybody, wanting to be heard first. That is the most natural thing in the world, but I have some limitations, one of which is that we can not hear two people at once. Just as fast as I can get to these gentlemen, I will. I think we can very largely finish to-morrow. You gentlemen are here. We would be glad to have you stay, anyway.

Mr. Boone is not next on the list, but he is from Indiana, and, in the language of St. Paul, he that careth not for his own household is worse than an infidel. [Laughter.]

STATEMENT OF FRANKLIN M. BOONE, TREASURER BUILDING AND LOAN ASSOCIATION OF SOUTH BEND, IND.

Senator WATSON. Mr. Boone, tell your name, and what your business is.

Mr. BOONE. Franklin M. Boone, South Bend, Ind.; treasurer and financial secretary Building and Loan Association of South Bend, Ind., which position I have held for 20 years.

Senator WATSON. Go right ahead, Mr. Boone. You are familiar with this bill, are you, and have studied it?

Mr. BOONE. Somewhat, yes. Of course, the ground has been covered, but I feel that we should have this bill enacted. It creates a reservoir by which an oversupply of funds in one vicinity can be transmitted to another to fill the demands for loans.

I do not know of anything in particular that I can say in support of the bill.

Senator WATSON. How large a building and loan association have you?

Mr. BOONE. A little over $10,000,000.

Senator WATSON. How many borrowers?

Mr. BOONE. We have about 4,000 borrowers and about 8,000 investors.

Senator WATSON. How many homes have been built through the instrumentality of your association?

Mr. BOONE. I could not say, Senator. We have built a lot of homes in South Bend.

Senator WATSON. What is the condition of the funds now?

Mr. BOONE. We are tied up, just the same as all associations in the country.

Senator WATSON. Are you making any foreclosures?

Mr. BOONE. Yes; a great many in South Bend. We are an industrial city. It is one of the automobile centers. A number of plow concerns are located there, as well as the Singer Sewing Machine Co. Our industrial class has been without employment a great deal for the last two and a half years, so things are very serious. We are on demand notice now and have been for six months.

The first part of June we had eight banks fail. Consequently, the receiverships and liquidating agents are calling in their loans very rapidly now. There is not a day passes that some man or woman does not come to my office and apply for a loan, and we advise them that we can not take care of them. They will break down, in fear of losing their homes. A good many of them are losing their homes.

Senator WATSON. So that your building and loan associations are for this measure?

Mr. BOONE. Yes, sir.

Senator WATSON. The general purpose of it?

Mr. BOONE. Yes, sir. There is just one thing I want to state here, Senator, and then I shall be through. We had a fine gentleman from Indiana make a statement before this committee a few weeks ago advising this committee that he had been looking for good loans in South Bend for quite a while, but could not find any, which is untrue. There is great demand for loans in South Bend. I suppose we could make thousands of loans right now if we had the

money.

I had only a few hours before I knew that I was to be here. I called on one of our contractors, a supply man, and he said he could build 25 homes for individual owners right now if he could get the money, but he can not get it. We have had heavy foreclosures, and it is impossible to get money in South Bend to take care of these people who want to pay for their homes.

Senator WATSON. Have you anything special you want to say about the bill, or any comments on it?

Mr. BOONE. No; nothing in particular, except that we are in favor of the bill.

Senator WATSON. All right. We are much obliged to you, Mr. Boone.

Mr. Sherlock.

STATEMENT OF CHESLA C. SHERLOCK, MANAGING EDITOR LADIES HOME JOURNAL

Senator WATSON. Will you please state your name and occupation? Mr. SHERLOCK. Chesla C. Sherlock. I am the managing editor of the Ladies Home Journal.

Senator WATSON. Mr. Sherlock says he wants to get away, because he wants to broadcast. Is that right?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir; and the title of the broadcast is, "Buy a home now," Senator.

I might say in the beginning that I am not one of those who is "for this bill, but-." I think you could be for it, and "but " it out of the window.

Senator WATSON. What is your special interest in it, Mr. Sherlock? Mr. SHERLOCK. Senator, I have been an editor for 11 years. The first year I was editor of a farm paper in the State of Iowa. Then

I was the first editor of Better Homes and Gardens for five years, and for the past four and one-half years I have been with the Curtis Publishing Co., and am at present managing editor of the Ladies Home Journal.

During all that time I have been interested in doing what I could to encourage an increase in home ownership in this country. It has seemed to me, during all that period, that there was nothing that I, as an editor, seeking to serve the homes of the country, could do that would be more constructive to all interests, than to try to increase the percentage of owned homes. That is my interest, Senator, and, if I may say so, I am here in the interest of the thousands of women who have written me during the past 10 years, particularly on this subject, "How can we get a home?" Out of all that experience, it has come down to one thing, the question of finances. You can buy everything under God's sun in this country but a home, and buy it easily and on any kind of terms. But when you try to buy a home, you must have, first, at least from 10 to 25 per cent in cash. Then you have to go out and find somebody who is willing to take a first mortgage for 50 per cent of the remainder. Then you have to scout around and find some one else who will condescend to take a second mortgage on the balance, at a discount of from 20 to 35 per cent.

I would like to ask here, how much business could be done in this land, in the automobile industry, in the furniture industry, or any other of the industries that have gone ahead in the last 80 years, if it was necessary to finance your purchases on that kind of a basis? It is the biggest disgrace we have had in the Nation. Do you know that we had a higher percentage of owned homes in 1850 than we have to-day, and during that interval of 80 years we have increased our population five times, and our national wealth fifteen times?

Why is it that there has been a slump in home ownership? It has not been a lack of incentive, or a lack of will for a home, or desire for a home. I found that out in the past 10 years. I have 17,000 letters in my office that I thought once I would carry down here and show you, that I have accumulated.

Senator WATSON. We are glad you did not. [Laughter.]

Mr. SHERLOCK. They are at your call if you wish them, Senator. Senator WATSON. We will take your word for it.

You

Mr. SHERLOCK. So, it is not lack of desire for a home. can ask any one of the 250,000 to 500,000 young women establishing new families every year in this country where they would rather start, in a home of their own, or in an apartment, or a rented house, and there is only one answer. There is not one of them who is honest who would not say, "I would rather have a home of my

own."

You do not have to sell that idea to the people of this country. Senator WATSON. That is very interesting. I thought nearly all the youngsters that go married nowadays, especially in the cities, wanted to go into an apartment.

Mr. SHERLOCK. Some of them do. Honestly, I think from 20 to 25 per cent of our population should never be in the home-owner class, because of occupation or because of economic conditions, but I do