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(The matter above referred to is as follows:)

Estimated and actual miscellaneous receipts and trust funds, deposited into the

Treasury of the United States for the fiscal years 1945, 1946, and 1947

Source of funds

Estimate

1947

Estimate,

1946

Ac al,

1915

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1. Admission fees and concessions.
2. Hunting stamps, fees, and licenses.
3. Grazing fees..
4. Revenues, Oregon and California and Coos Bay Wagon Road

lands..
5. Sale of sealskins and other products.
6. Oil, gas, and mining royalties and rentals.
7. Interest on and repayments to Colorado Dam sund and other

funds. 8. Revenues from Colorado Dam fund projects. 9. Collections, reclamation funds.. 10. Sale of heliumi and of cas from belium plants. 11. Sale of Bonneville power 12. Sale of Norfolk & Denison power. 13. Sale of Fort Peck power. 14. Miscellaneous renials, fees, and permits. 15. Collections for services to Indians. 16. Alaska Railroad receipts. 17. Repayment of investments.. 18. Unclassified receipts...

Gross receipts, general and special funds.
Less duplications '.

Net receipts, general and special funds.
Total trust funds (civil).
Total trust funds (Indian).

All trust funds........

Gross receipts, all funds. Net receipts, all funds.

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1 Receipts duplicated are as follows:

Source of funds

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COMPARISON OF ESTIMATES, 1947, WITH APPROPRIATIONS, 1946 Mr. Johnson of Oklahoma. I believe in the general statement of Mr. Chapman it was stated there might be a falling off in revenues for the coming year.

Has an estimate been made of what the revenues will be next year?

Mr. NORTHROP. Yes, sir; we estimate our net revenues for 1947 at $71,900,000—a reduction of some $8,000,000 from the actual revenues for 1945. Most of that reduction is due to a curtailment in Bonneville revenues and to the reduction in revenues for the Alaska Railroad.

Mr. Johnson of Oklahoma. Considering the fact your total budget estimate so far, unless we get some additional budget estimates during the day, or during the hearings, is only $340,000,000 for next year and the fact the anticipated revenues are some $8,000,000 less than last year-at that rate I would say it would take some time before the

revenues will exceed the expenditures of this Department-a thing that every member of this committee has looked forward to for many years, hopeful that the revenues would at some future time exceed the appropriations. This is not too encouraging, is it?

Mr. NORTHROP. I would like to point out, Mr. Chairman, that of this total appropriation request, $240,000,000 is for construction activities.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I believe, to be proper, you should say "for proposed construction activities."

Mr. NORTHROP. For proposed construction activities, which leaves a balance of 100 million for operating, maintenance, and administrative functions, and the disparity between revenues and the cost of the operating, maintenance, and administrative functions is not large. Mr. Johnson of Oklahoma. But the fact remains your estimates for 1947—to be exact, as of this date, or as of this hour—are three hundredMr. CHAPMAN. $340,000,000. Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. $340,719,260, unless you have sent up a couple of million since then.

The 1946 Interior Department Appropriation Act contained a total of $111,000,000 plus, is that right? Mr. NORTHROP. Yes, sir. Mr. Johnson of Oklahoma. So your request for 1947 is over three times the amount contained in last year's Interior Department Appropriation Act? Mr. CHAPMAN. That is right.

Mr. Johnson of Oklahoma. That is, not including deficiency appropriations for 1946, which total $83,000,000, you are still asking for $149,552,872 more than the 1946 appropriations.

Now, I suspect that I should direct this question to Secretary Chapman. I am not going to ask you where you are going to get the money, but as a matter of policy, in view of the urgent demands

do
you

have any comment to make as to how you would offset the drastic proposed increase, at this time when there is no public-works program on?

Mr. CHAPMAN. Yes, Congressman; I think there is adequate justification for this increase. Let me cite a typical example. The National Park Service has been able to do little or no repair or improvement work since 1939. The Service was placed upon a skeleton basis of operation and custodial care of the properties and there is a large backlog of work that will have to be done in order to make the parks available and serviceable to the people. Construction and improvements in the parks takes up a considerable part of our proposed increase.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. How much is that item for the Park Service, about $20,000,000 to $30,000,000? Mr. CHAPMAN. The estimate for 1947 is $32,643,215. Mr. Johnson of Oklahoma. I probably have not seen it in the Mr. CHAPMAN. I use that as an illustration of the type of operation which has been suspended since 1939 and of the need for additional funds to carry on the normal functions of the Department.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Just in order to keep the record straight, I want to remind you that in 1935 the appropriation for the

for money,

last week or so.

entire Interior Department, was $31,000,000 plus; in 1936 it was $61,000,000 plus; in 1937 it was $114,000,000 plus; in 1938 it was $132,000,000; and in 1939 we dropped back to $129,000,000. In 1940 the appropriation jumped to $172,000,000; in 1941 it went back down to $135,000,000; in 1942 it was $188,000,000; and in 1943 it was $178,000,000. In 1944 you got along with only $104,000,000, and in 1945 on $103,000,000. And, now, with the war ended, are you really serious in asking for $340,000,000?

Mr. CHAPMAN. I am absolutely serious about it, Congressman.

Mr. Johnson of Oklahoma. Do you really expect this committee to give to the Department of the Interior more than three times the amount given it a year ago?

Mr. CHAPMAN. Well, we feel that this committee is a reasonable committee. I hope that the represer tatives from each bureau in justifying their items can convince you that this is a reasonable request.

The General Land Office is another agency which has accumulated a tremendous amourt of deferred work during the past 5 years. Appropriation increases proposed for the General Land Office are required to place their work upon a current basis and to provide efficient and timely service during the reconversion period.

SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS PENDING IN BUDGET BUREAU

Mr. Johnson of Oklahoma. Are you familiar witb any additional supplementals that are perding before the Bureau of the Bueget?

Mr. CHAPMAN. Yes, sir; we have a list of them.
Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. For how much?

Mr. NORTHROP. We have pending supplemental estimates amounting to $1,835,000 from the general fund, and a tribal-fund item amounting to $355,000.

Mr. Johnson of 'Oklahoma. Now, that is all that is pending at this time?

Mr. NORTHROP. At this time; yes, sir.

Mr. CHAPMAN. Of course, Congressman, the increased cost of manpower and materials is showing up in this year more than it has shown up in any previous year's budget presentation.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Remembering that the Interior Department functioned in the fiscal year of 1935 on $31,000,000 and in 1945 on $103,000,000, it is difficult for members to understand why it is necessary, or even desirable, that the appropriation jump to å total of $340,000,000 for the next fiscal year.

NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES IN THE DEPARTMENT

Will you insert a table showing the number of employees in the Department by bureaus, departmental and field?

Mr. NORTHROP. Yes, sir. This table showing the requested data is submitted for the record.

(The table is as follows:)

Number of employees, Department of the Interior, Dec. 31, 1945 1

Erployment groups: "Salaried" includes all permanent and temporary employees on an annual or
onthly salaried basis. "Wage" includes all permanent and temporary employees on a wage and piece.
work basis. “Miscellaneous” includes when actually employed without compensation, and $1 per year
a month employees. “Part time" employees are included in each of the above categories]

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Employers not in nay status during month, 2,051 (not included in above). Employees in military sery.
2,50 not included in above).

trout compensation and $1 per year or month employees in District of Columbia, 25.
3 tahoat compensation and $1 per year or month employees outside of District of Columbia, 1,527.

EMPLOYEES ENGAGED IN INFORMATIONAL WORK

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Now, will that include a table of those
who are putting out information or misinformation in all the depart-
ments, in other words, the informational service?

Mr. CHAPMAN. No; but we can furnish a copyTof a statement of

estimated obligations for informational activities that was prepared

for the Bureau of the Budget in response to a request by the House

Appropriations Committee.

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Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I would like to have a statement but perhaps not for the record, of where these people engaged on information work are employed, what they are doing, their salary, names, and on what pay roll they are carried.

Mr. Chapman. We will have such a statement prepared. (The information was supplied to the committee.)

LIAISON SERVICE

Mr. Johnson of Oklahoma. For example, a few days ago a very charming lady called on me and said she had just received a very important appointment in the Department of the Interior. I believe

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