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Appropriations, fiscal year 1946, and estimates, fiscal year 1947, for general publi works Continued

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Mr. JOHNSON. Now insert a table showing the number of new positions by bureaus and the cost involved.

Mr. NORTHROP. Yes, sir.

(The matter referred to is as follows:)

Comparison of authorized employment for fiscal year 1946 and estimated employment

for fiscal year 1947

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Comparison of authorized employment for fiscal year 1946 and estimated employment for fiscal year 1947-Continued

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INCREASE IN BASE SALARIES DUE TO PUBLIC LAW 106

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Also insert a statement by bureaus of the total amount required to be appropriated for 1946 for Pay Act increases and also show the amounts which will be required with overtime for 1946 deducted.

Mr. CHAPMAN. Yes, sir. We will also place in the record a statement showing the amount required in 1947 as an increase in base salaries due to Public Law 106.

(The data referred to are as follows:)

Supplemental appropriations required for the fiscal year 1946 to cover pay increase authorized by the Federal Employees Pay Act of 1945

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! Includes $9,970 to cover costs under Public Law 151, 79th Cong.
2 Excludes $63,318 from tribal funds and $103,500 from power revenues.
Excludes $12,824 from tribal funds and $15,399 from power revenues.
Excludes $50,494 from tribal funds and $88,101 from power revenues.

Comparison of appropriations for fiscal year 1946 (adjusted to include increase i base salaries due to Public Law 106) with estimates of appropriations for fisco year 1947

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This amount represents the increase included in the 1947 estimates specifically for the cost of increase in base salaries due to Public Law 106, and not the full cost of such increases. The difference between th full cost and the increase included in the 1947 estimates will be met within the appropriation base for 1940 The amount involved is $1,052,158, exclusive of the Bureau of Reclamation.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Are there any questions, gentlemen?

DISCUSSION OF MINERAL RESOURCES OF THE UNITED STATES

Mr. KIRWAN. Yes; I have some questions, Mr. Chairman. During the war millions and millions of dollars were spent hunting for minerals.

Mr. CHAPMAN. That is right.

Mr. KIRWAN. And we probably gave Canada half a billion dollars just to get some oil. You do not think that all of the oil is discovered in this country, do you?

Mr. CHAPMAN. No, sir.

Mr. KIRWAN. And you do not think that we are at the end of our mineral resources in this country?

Mr. CHAPMAN. No; not by any means.

Mr. KIRWAN. I am glad to hear you make that statement, and neither do I, but I do not think that we have spent enough money here yet to find out just what we have in America, do you?

Mr. CHAPMAN. You are absolutely right, Congressman, and if we do not do more exploration work and more research work we will soon exhaust some of our known resources.

Mr. KIRWAN. I read an article in the past week saying that they may mine ore again in the State of Ohio. Do you have any information on that?

Mr. CHAPMAN. I do not happen to have information on that report. May I suggest that you ask Dr. Sayers about it when he appears before your committee.

Mr. KIRWAN. I read that the Bethlehem Steel Co. has contracted to import into this country 3,500,000 tons of ore each year from Venezuela. That throws our miners out of work, and throws transportation workers out of work simply because we, as a nation, have not made the findings that are necessary to keep our own people at work. Mr. CHAPMAN. That is right.

Mr. KIRWAN. We do not spend enough money on that. When I look at the money that was spent in the last World War for other nations and the money that we spent trying to find these things I think that the Interior Department should have spent hundreds of millions of dollars for those purposes down over the past 20 years.

Mr. CHAPMAN. That is right.

Mr. KIRWAN. They should have done that instead of trying to discover it all in 5 or 6 months.

Mr. CHAPMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. KIRWAN. And as I see it we are not spending enough money for those purposes.

Mr. CHAPMAN. For the welfare of the Nation, we need to intensify and expand all phases of our work related to the exploration and development of our mineral resources.

Mr. KIRWAN. If we are going to have a $35,000,000,000 budget for the fiscal year 1947, which we will probably have, and the whole of America is only getting $340,000,000 out of a $35,000,000,000 budget, I still say that the Interior Department is not asking for enough money for and not taking enough interest in America.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Well, I might say, since I raised the question, and a few people, at least, are thinking of economy in gov

ernment, that the Interior Department has had very liberal appro priations over the period of 20 years that I have been in Congress, and I have gone along with and voted for those appropriations to th Bureau of Mines and the Geological Survey to make investigations and they have made investigations, and we have complimented bot Bureaus on the good records they have made, but it seems to me tha the time has come when we must squeeze every penny and every nickel; at least not waste any money.

NEED FOR SURVEY OF CONTINENTAL SHELF

Mr. CHAPMAN. I would like to comment, Mr. Chairman, on the need for this increased budget? As you know, this past year the Government asserted its title to the lands on the Continental Shelf I am not speaking of tidelands, but of the Continental Shelf, which extends out into the ocean and into the Gulf. There has been very little exploration work done to date in that area. We should explor this area, under the ocean, to determine its mineral resources, especially petroleum. Many geologists will tell you that is is one of the pros pective fields that we ought to explore, and that it is worth spending & good deal of money to try to develop. I do not know whether we have an item in this budget for this type of exploration. Do you know whether the Bureau of Mines has included an estimate for work on the Continental Shelf survey, Mr. Beasley?

Mr. BEASLEY. No funds are included in the 1947 estimates specifi cally for such a survey.

Mr. CHAPMAN. They are working up an estimate, at the present time, I know. That is an item which is typical of the whole field of explorations. It is important that we do some exploration work in that area. Compared to the cost of exploration work done on the land surface, it may be expensive, but it is a valuable field that we must explore.

RELATION OF INTERIOR DEPARTMENT BUDGET TO THE NATIONAL DEBT

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Well, I think there are a lot of things that might be commendable to do if this country did not have a $279,000,000,000 debt, or something like that, but it occurs to me that the time has come when all the departments of the Government must take into consideration that we do have this debt, and it is up to the Congress to reduce it and balance the Budget if it is possible to do it.

I realize that foreign governments do not know that we have a debt. They think that because we have been advertised as the richest country in the world, that we are still so rich that we have more money than we know what to do with, but it occurs to me that the various Departments of the Government are going to have to economize in fact more than in theory.

Mr. NORRELL. Mr. Chairman, you touched on the only point I wanted to ask one or two questions about.

I have had an opportunity to briefly review your proposals and, frankly, I think you have a number of very worth-while projects. There may be no possibility of finding anything wrong with a few of them. I can see where you could be enthusiastic in wanting to do a part, if not all, of the proposed work. I believe you represent the

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