only about the agency administration now, $71,000. Hospital and field medical work, $53,000. Extension work is $34,000. Could you submit for the record what you would do with each of those items and what you think is needed for each one of them? You can say the total for the entire agency should be not over $100,000.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes; that includes everything. I would not cut the health item below the point used in 1945, which amount will successfully operate our hospital.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. You would not cut health?

Mr. CRAWFORD. No; not below the 1945 level.

VALUE OF EDUCATION OF INDIANS IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. What about education? There is nothing for education. Would you add something for education?

Mr. CRAWFORD. The education now is taken care of by the attendance of Indians in public schools.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. What do you think about Indians attending public schools? Do you not think it is helpful? Mr. CRAWFORD. The finest thing that ever happened.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Did you attend public schools?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Where were you educated?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Agency schools years ago. My parents took me out of there, and I went to the public school at Fort Klamath. I went also to the Chewawa Institution, near Salem. Then I attended Willamette University, in Salem.

I think the public school is, of course, the finest educational system there is. It has the Indians mixed with all other races of people. That is a very good thing. After all, I believe the Indians should live under the same laws as other citizens of the State they live in. Then they become self-supporting and start from babyhood up to assimilate into the life and ways of other people in the county and the State they live in.

If you have Indian boarding schools, Mr. Chairman, you have only Indians there. The Indian service employees are teachers and instructors, of a different kind of philosophy. They keep Indians thinking they are Indians and should always be Indians. That is the general trend and policy of the Indian service. When I attended the Indian boarding schools, that is what I found. They constantly reminded you that you are an Indian and you should always be an Indian.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. You think the time has arrived when an Indian must take his place along with all other citizens. You think the time has come when the red man, if he is to take his place with his pale-faced brother, that he ought to attend school and should begin at babyhood and not be segregated into some school where he will be taught that he must always remain an Indian and aloof from other society?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Absolutely.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I think you have something there. Mr. CRAWFORD. I want to say, Mr. Chairman, at the present time our Indians are doing that at Klamath. They all have attended public

school since 1928.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Have they made good progress since 1928?

Mr. CRAWFORD. They are passing their grades the same as all other children are. We have graduates of the public schools and high schools, and they are even attending private schools. As far as the Indians are concerned on the Klamath Reservation they are just the same as any other white citizen in that community. They make their living in a simple and hard way-they work for wages and work in the livestock business. An Indian has to rustle for his own money. It is up to him individually to do that.

The Indian service is not paying attention to the Indian individually; the employees are not paying attention to them. They ride around in cars and run about the reservation.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. "They" meaning who?

DISCUSSION OF FUNDS IN KLAMATH INDIAN TREASURY

Mr. CRAWFORD. The Indian service employees. I want to say, Mr. Chairman, that the Indian service constantly has been coming before your committee and the Appropriations Committee of the Senate and making it appear that the Klamath Indians are wealthy. We either have millions of dollars in the treasury, or have millions of dollars in timber lands.

The fact is this: I noticed in the House hearings of 1944 that the Commissioner stated we had a little over $2,000,000 in the treasury. Now, that $2,000,000 is obligated in several different ways. There are 625 children who have $1,500 in lieu of allotment in the capital reserve fund. That is a part of the $2,000,000. That $2,000,000 is not all tribal funds. The fund was set aside in 1929 when the Congress passed the act to distribute our Yamsay judgment money.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. How much was distributed at that time?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Approximately $3,000,000. Our recovery was $8,000,000. The court awarded $8,000,000, and the Government took nearly $2,000,000 for the offsets that were against the tribe. It left us $5,000,000. The Department distributed $3,000,000 and left us $2,000,000. That money is the capital reserve fund, the interest to be used for administrative purposes.

We won the suit in the Supreme Court. The Indian service now has a part of it for their future jobs. That is what it amounts to. All the children who had $1,500 in lieu of allotment, have money in that fund; it draws interest; and the individual Indian child does not get the interest on that money. The interest is used for administrative purposes at Klamath Agency.

So when the Indian Commissioner comes before you and tells you that the Indians have $2,000,000 in the treasury, that is misinformation. It should not be taken into consideration.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. How much funds are due you?
Mr. CRAWFORD. I do not have the financial statement.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. If you know approximately what it is, I think the committee would like to have it.

Your testimony, I think, is very timely and should be considered as a danger signal to this committee, that we cannot afford to go on ap

propriating your money to the tune of $300,000 a year. It just is not sensible.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Chairman, that is not income. That is a part of our capital assets. It is principal that is being absorbed each year in like amounts. We are still called wards of the Government, but we know different from that. No business can operate and spend $300,000 a year of its capital each year. There is an end to that. Mr. DWORSHAK. How long has the Klamath Reservation been under the jurisdiction of the Indian Bureau?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Eighty-two years.

NUMBER OF KLAMATH INDIANS ON THE RESERVATION

Mr. DWORSHAK. What has been the relative number of Indians on the reservation at that time and currently, would you say? Can you give me an estimate? How many Indians lived on the reservation 80 years ago and how many today?

Mr. CRAWFORD. I think, 1,100 to begin with.

Mr. DWORSHAK. How many today?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Fifteen hundred and thirty-two. About 100 of the Indians do not live on the reservation. They have individual homes in the different part of the United States. They are in business, or they are working in different places.

Mr. DWORSHAK. They retain their individual interests in the assets of the Klamath Tribe?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes; they are still on the roll.

QUESTION AS TO CONTRIBUTION OF INDIAN BUREAU TO PROGRESS OF KLAMATH INDIANS

Mr. DWORSHAK. Can you tell me whether you think the Klamath Indians are better today, generally, than they were many years ago. In other words, has the work that has been done under the supervision of the Indian Bureau improved that status, or are they more poorly off today than they were several decades ago?

Mr. CRAWFORD. I would say that the Indians individually are, with regard to education and industry, better off, and they have advanced in the same proportion as the white man has advanced. We have progressive Indians.

Indians, you know, are just people. Some are progressive and some are not. We have that same percentage in our Indians as we do in

the whites.

Tribally, our assets, as you can see, are going with the wind. They are being dissipated by the Indian Service in experimenting with our money; and holding jobs for themselves.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I think what Mr. Dworshak has in mind is this: Has the policy of the Indian Service contributed to your advancement, or have you advanced because of public schools and because of your own initiative, despite the policy of the Indian Service?

Mr. CRAWFORD. That is absolutely right, Mr. Chairman, and I want to say this: The Indian Service policy hinders the Indians. Mr. DWORSHAK. It is one of repression?

Mr. CRAWFORD. It hinders them in a great many ways, for the Indians have to live under rules and regulations which make it a

separate world in the community we live in. Indians, as far as the Indian Service is concerned, are having all obstacles put in their way in order to make a living. With regard to handling their individual moneys and properties, they are handicapped. The Indian Service has their tribal moneys and lands in such an entangled mess I don't know when it ever will be straightened out.

IRRIGATION PROJECT

I want to point out here, Mr. Chairman, that the irrigation project was built on the Klamath Reservation in 1915. That is 31 years ago. That project has not developed like it should have. There is a construction cost on it of $30 an acre.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Why has it not progressed?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Under Indian service management. First, there are lands there that should be properly drained. The canal should be enlarged so it will carry sufficient water to irrigate the lands under these projects.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Whose fault is it?

Mr. CRAWFORD. The Indian service's mismanagement. There is a $30-an-acre charge against the individual Indian's land under that project. The Indian service has spent $219,042.08. There is going to be a pay day some day. The Indians' individual land is mortgaged. The Government holds a mortgage on it.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. All of it?

Mr. CRAWFORD. All the land under that project.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. How many acres? Do you know? Mr. CRAWFORD. Approximately 3,000 acres. That is handed down now for the last 31 years to the present generation.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Do you know how much has been paid back, if any?

Mr. CRAWFORD. I do not have those figures. I do not believe there has been very much of it paid back. The Indians feel, with regard to that project, that they should not pay the exorbitant cost of the construction of $30 an acre for that land, because the Indian Service has not been able to get water on to those lands where they want it, and they have not properly drained their lands so that they could use it. That has been one of the reasons why the Indians have been objecting to the uses and cost of that project.

POLICY OF BUREAU TOWARD INDIAN LANDS

I want to point out that the individual Indian will be in debt to the Government. Their tribal funds will be slushed away. There is a mortgage on their individual land. How are they going to come out?

There is a loan board set up which has a half million dollars. They have Indian lands mortgaged under the loan board. I think, Mr. Chairman, the policy of Mr. Collier is to loan money to these Indians on these lands to the extent that the tribal funds or Treasury funds will absorb these lands of the individual so that they will become common tribal property to be administered as community propositions. That seems to be Mr. Collier's trend and Ickes' trend. It is a communistic idea instead of individual ownership.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. You might have something there.
Mr. CRAWFORD. The record shows that.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I hope Mr. Brophy does not embrace and adopt all those impractical ideas of his predecessor.

Mr. DwORSHAK. Under what authority do they have authority to outline policies and make recommendations to be approved or disapproved by the Indian Service? I cannot understand why this committee should be the body that should be the judge as to what should be done. How much authority does the tribal council have? Mr. CRAWFORD. They have none, sir.

The general council minutes do not mean a thing to the Bureau of Indian Affairs. The resolutions passed in the councils are completely ignored unless they are to the advantage of the Indian Bureau. The minutes of the councils and the actions of the Indian Bureau will bear out this statement. The wastebasket is full of resolutions passed by the council that were completely ignored by Ickes and Collier and Zimmerman and are continuing to be ignored by Assistant Commissioner Zimmerman and Commissioner Brophy.

Mr. DWORSHAK. Who has all the authority?

Mr. CRAWFORD. The Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior.

Mr. DwORSHAK. Operating through the Superintendent of the Klamath Reservation?

Mr. CRAWFORD. That is right.

Mr. DWORSHAK. You are contending in your presentation here that the people you represent on the reservation are displeased with the kind of administration they have had there and with the way their affairs are being managed by the Superintendent and the Indian Service. Is that right?

Mr. CRAWFORD. I certainly do; yes, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Is the Superintendent a white man? Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes.

NEED FOR HOLDING DOWN EXPENDITURES OF TRIBAL FUNDS

Mr. DWORSHAK. How do you propose to remedy this? What do you want us to do?

Mr. CRAWFORD. The only thing I can ask this committee to do at the present is to hold down the expenditure of our tribal funds so they will not be slushed away.

We have a solution to the problem as far as the Indians are concerned. We have a bill in Congress, S. 1313, and that will straighten up our affairs with the Indian service and the Government and put every Indian on his own, give him titles to his land and let him live there the same as any other citizen in the country.

DISSATISFACTION AMONG INDIANS TOWARD ADMINISTRATION BY BUREAU

Mr. DWORSHAK. Apparently you have had widespread experience with the administration of the Indian service, Mr. Crawford. Do you think the Klamath Reservation is an exception and an isolated case where charges of maladministration may be justified, or do you think similar policies are in effect throughout the various reservations under the jurisdiction of the Indian service?