of new ships. Funds are now available for two replacement battleships and these estimates request funds to begin the construction of

two more.

NECESSITY FOR TWO ADDITIONAL BATTLESHIPS

Mr. UMSTEAD. Admiral, before leaving the subject of battleships, I should like to have you make any additional statement you may desire to make for the record in connection with the necessity, as the Department sees it, for two additional battleships at this time.

Admiral LEAHY. The necessity for two additional battleships at this time is that two of our battleships now in commission are reaching an age when it will be uneconomical from the point of view of efficiency to continue them in service. These battleships should be replaced when they reach an age that makes them inefficient compared with the battleships of other naval powers; we have now arrived at that condition, and it will be necessary, in order that the United States Fleet may have an efficiency comparable to that of other navies, that we engage in an orderly replacement of our average battleships.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Admiral, is there anywhere in the tables prepared for the record a comparison of the age of the battleships of other nations and ours?

Admiral LEAHY. That is included in the tables of this statement, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. UMSTEAD. I believe that 26 years is the age now set up for battleships?

Admiral LEAHY. Twenty-six years is the age for battleships set up in the 1936 London treaty.

Mr. UMSTEAD. And that still prevails with reference to that particular item, so far as we are concerned?

Admiral LEAHY. We are following that provision of the 1936 treaty, but it is necessary to understand that there is no treaty limitation and that we are not required to build only replacement battleships. We can, under the treaty, build new ones in any number that suits us.

Mr. UMSTEAD. But in our program we are adhering to the terms of the original treaty?

Admiral LEAHY. In our program for this year we are adhering to the terms of the original treaty limitations.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Of course, the entire Vinson-Trammell Act was based upon a program of adherence to the London-Washington Treaty.

Admiral LEAHY. That is correct, sir.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Admiral, the fact that a ship is 26 years old does not necessarily mean that it is no longer useful, does it?

Admiral LEAHY. It does not. A ship 26 years of age should be of very real use in the Navy, but if other naval powers build later ships that are more efficient, it is then necessary in order to maintain our relative naval standing that we also replace our ships as they become

over age.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question?

Mr. UMSTEAD. Yes.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Admiral, this seems to be a point of some considerable importance. It costs, for example, $7.000,000 to modernize

a battleship. Assuming that is the figure merely for the purpose of illustration, would it not be better to build one or two battleships, leaving the old battleships in the condition they are, from the point of view of strategy and policy of the Navy?

Admiral LEAHY. That is the present policy of the Navy Department, Governor Scrugham, to economize on the expenditures for improvement of the old battleships with the purpose of obtaining replacements when they become so old as to be not sufficiently efficient.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. That point has not been sufficiently stressed, but I think it has quite a bearing on these appropriations that we are called upon to make.

AIRCRAFT CARRIERS

Admiral LEAHY. Authorization and appropriation for modernization of the Lexington and Saratoga continue to be necessary. The Langley has been given minimum alterations to convert her into a seaplane tender. It is desired further to improve that vessel as a seaplane tender by removing all landing facilities, but funds for this work cannot be spared from regular appropriations.

SEAPLANE TENDERS

A pressing need for seaplane tenders exists at present. It should be noted that it has been necessary to divert the Langley from her former assignment as a carrier to cover this need. Our present seaplane tenders, small, are old and require an increasing amount of upkeep. Alterations are in progress to better equip them for their duties as a temporary expedient. Funds for the conversion of two over-age destroyers to seaplane tenders, small, are included in the Navy Department estimates.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Admiral, with reference to the development in seaplanes, why is it now necessary to provide or have tenders? Let me explain that to this extent: I do not understand that you now have seaplane tenders of the type you are requesting here in the Naval Establishment. Now, if you have not had them heretofore, what development has taken place that now makes them necessary?

Admiral LEAHY. We have had seaplane tenders performing the service that is required of the tenders which we propose now to obtain. We have had the seaplane tender Wright, a converted merchant ship. We have had the converted Langley, an old aircraft carrier; she is now a seaplane tender. We have used, in the past, and use now, a large number of converted mine sweepers to act as seaplane tenders.

The tenders are of two classes, the large and the small, and at the present time we have two large tenders, the Langley and the Wright, and we have given an award for the construction of a new one within the last day or two. We have 10 small seaplane tenders which are converted mine sweepers that were constructed during the war to operate as mine sweepers.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Admiral, a seaplane tender is a repair and service vessel for seaplanes, is it not?

Admiral LEAHY. Yes, sir; it is.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Your seaplanes operate from shore bases, do they not; shore stations?

Admiral LEAHY. Seaplanes operate from shore stations and from seaplane tenders. In order that the seaplanes may be mobile and that they may proceed to those positions where they are needed, it is necessary that they should have tenders to go with them, or to go near to where they are going and to provide them with fuel and such services as the seaplanes need.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Now, aside from patrol duty, which I assume would start from a shore base, for what other purposes are seaplanes used? Admiral LEAHY. Seaplanes are used for scouting, bombing, torpedoing, and patrol duty; and seaplanes in offensive operations will move definitely into the area occupied by the enemy. They must have within reach facilities for refueling, and taking care of their personnel, and making such repairs as are found to be necessary. Mr. UMSTEAD. Well, I realize that I am getting into the field of technical operations with these questions, but it is true, is it not, that your seaplanes, for the purposes just indicated by you, would have to operate from some protected base?

Admiral LEAHY. They operate usually from a permanent or temporary base, Mr. Chairman. However, seaplanes do accompany the fleet.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Well, would it be a part of the program of operations for these seaplane tenders to accompany the fleet?

Admiral LEAHY. Yes, sir; on any overseas expedition seaplane tenders would accompany the fleet.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Could the seaplanes receive proper service and repairs and attention from the fleet without a seaplane tender? Admiral LEAHY. They could not.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Well, how many seaplane tenders do you now have in use?

Admiral LEAHY. We now have 2 large seaplane tenders in use, and 10 small converted mine sweepers in use as seaplane tenders, making a total of 12.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Are the small converted mine sweepers which are being used as seaplane tenders fast enough to keep up with the fleet?

Admiral LEAHY. No, sir; they are not.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Are the two seaplane tenders, other than the converted mine sweepers, fast enough to keep up with the fleet? Admiral LEAHY. No, sir; they are not.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Then up until this time you have not had available the character of seaplane tender you are requesting in these estimates?

Admiral LEAHY. No seaplane tender is requested in these estimates. Mr. UMSTEAD. Except funds for the construction of one heretofore authorized.

Admiral LEAHY. That is correct.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Then, after all, the utilization of a seaplane tender such as was authorized by Congress just before adjournment last session and the construction of which was authorized by the deficiency appropriation bill, is more or less of an experiment with the Navy Department, is it not?

Admiral LEAHY. It is the result of our experience with the other vessels which have not proved satisfactory for many reasons, and it incorporates within itself those things which we have found necessary for an efficient seaplane tender.

Mr. PLUMLEY. Do the tenders duplicate the service rendered by other carriers or other ship-servicing facilities, or has the necessity for their independent use been demonstrated to be essential to the efficiency of the service to be rendered by the seaplanes themselves? We have to have them?

Admiral LEAHY. The seaplane tenders do not duplicate the work done by any other type of vessel. Their services have been found essential to the efficiency of the seaplanes for naval use.

CRUISERS

The light and heavy cruisers in commission have been maintained in a satisfactory material condition. The United States is now under the total cruiser tonnage stipulated by treaty, and two ships, the Omaha and Milwaukee, become over age in 1939, under the London Treaties of 1930 and 1936. Two light cruisers to replace them are requested in these estimates.

GUNBOATS

With the exception of the Erie and the Charleston and six river gunboats, the gunboats are old vessels which require an increasing amount of upkeep. During the past year the condition of the Palos, one of the river gunboats, became such as to make her unfit for further use. One other gunboat, the Monocacy, is very old and probably will have to be disposed of as unserviceable in April 1938. The two new seagoing gunboats, the Erie and the Charleston, are scheduled for employment with the special service squadron in Central American waters.

DESTROYER TENDERS

Due to their age, the cost and difficulty of maintaining the de.stroyer tenders in good material condition increases from year to year. Alterations to equip them for servicing the new destroyers are progressing. In accordance with the auxiliary building program, funds have already been appropriated for one destroyer tender: plans for this ship have been prepared, bids were opened on December 1, and contracts will be awarded shortly or the construction assigned to navy yards. By utilizing tender facilities to the utmost, the annual cost of upkeep of destroyers has been kept at a minimum. Mr. PLUMLEY. You mean the use of more tenders will reduce the expense?

Admiral LEAHY. By the use of tenders to the maximum of their capacity the cost of upkeep of the destroyers has in the past been maintained at a minimum.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Admiral, are these destroyers that are overage and out of commission any good for turning over to the Coast Guard, for instance, or any other agency of the Government? Would they be at all suited for such work?

Admiral LEAHY. We have had no requests from any other agency of the Government for the use of our decommissioned destroyers. We do propose to convert some of these decommissioned destroyers for use as seaplane tenders.

DESTROYERS

The condition of the 71 old destroyers, now overage, still in commission, is satisfactory considering their age. They are rapidly being replaced and decommissioned as new destroyers are completed. Forty-four of the latter are now in commission. It is planned to decommission 16 old destroyers during the fiscal year 1938 and 11 during 1939. The number of old destroyers to be decommissioned will vary depending on the dates of completion of the new destroyers which will replace them.

Old destroyers which have been decommissioned are disposed as follows:

At Philadelphia, 43, material condition fair to good, all over age; 9, material condition poor to fair, all over age; at San Diego, 45, material condition fair to good, all over age. Kept in state of preservation. Four of these vessels were converted to light mine layers and operated as such before being decommissioned. At Mare Island, one material condition is fair, over age, kept in state of preservation. Mr. UMSTEAD. Admiral, under the London treaty, I believe we are entitled to 150,000 tons of destroyers. As new destroyers are commissioned and we reach the tonnage we are allowed of under. age destroyers, is it the intention of the Navy to keep in full commission or reduced commission any over-age destroyers?

Admiral LEAHY. No provision is now made for keeping in commission any more than the tonnage allowed by the treaty. I amı unable to say what might be the policy of the Department some years from now, when the old destroyers are all replaced by new

ones.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Well, the condition of some of the destroyers which are being decommissioned is good, is it not?

Admiral LEAHY. Yes; the condition of many of the destroyers now being decommissioned is good, and they should properly be retained for use in case of a national emergency.

Mr. UMSTEAD. Are they being maintained on a basis which would make them available for that use?

Admiral LEAHY. At the present time they are in condition to be rapidly put back into commission.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Admiral, the table on page 11 possibly answers the question or the point I was endeavoring to bring out, showing that three patrol vessels were loaned. To whom are those loaned? Would they not be useful for lending to other branches of the Government? That is there at the top of page 11, three loaned. that mean that they are loaned to some other branch of the Government?

Does

When you are visiting these navy yards, and particularly the Philadelphia Navy Yard, you are impressed by the very large number of vessels in inactive status, which, apparently, are just going to waste, just deteriorating rapidly. It occurred to me at the time I visited there that many other agencies of the Government would need these vessels and that we could save expenditures in providing them, and I had in mind the Coast Guard.

Admiral LEAHY. If any other agency of the Government should desire our out-of-commission vessels, I have no doubt the Navy Department would be very glad indeed to use them for that purpose.