source of heat for the desalinization program, the Commission would not be involved further. Mr. PILLION. Prior to the session this morning, we had a little talk about the possibility of converting lead or one of these types of metals into gold, and the answer was that it could be done, but the cost would be too great by nuclear means. If it is too expensive to convert lead into gold, I wonder whether it would not be too expensive to convert salt water to water by the nuclear process. I wonder if, on the face of it, it is not a process that would be too expensive for eventual commercial use. Why do we have to go into this sort of thing? Would this not be something which would be a less favored choice when we have so many other projects which are being studied and a number of companies are already manufacturing these machines which are commercially usable in high-cost areas, such as Arabia and places like that? General LUEDECKE. I think the commercial companies are providing evaporators that operate by heat from fossil fuels. This is easy to calculate in terms of economics. If at a specific location water is needed that badly, it is workable. The application of atomic energy to the problem, I think, probably would be confined to areas in which very great quantities of water are needed. It may be by going to very large reactors and making them produce electricity and taking the byproduct heat to use as the evaporator, you would come out with relatively economic electricity and water in a range that would be feasible. Mr. PILLION. You use the heating process, you use the freezing process, and you use electrolysis for the purpose of getting fresh water out of salt water. Why go into this when you know offhand that you do not need water in this country at these costs? General LUEDECKE. I am not sure of that, sir. If the reactor is large enough and if there is a market for the electricity produced, it is quite possible that in some areas of the United States the byproduct of fresh water would be within reason. That is not a certainty at this time, and that is the reason for the study. Mr. WHITTEN. My colleague from New York is talking about something that enables me to follow up a little more what I asked a while ago. I am not too familiar with this area, as you can well tell, this being my first year actually to be present at the hearings. You stated you are doing certain work for the Interior Department. When we first came up with missiles, the Air Force, the Navy, and Army all wanted to get their hands on missiles because it was the weapon of the future. Whichever one got missiles would have more generals and more chance for advancement, and all that, which is natural. With a new energy agent such as that with which you deal, I am sure Interior would like to get in on it, as well as Agriculture and others. Where is the control board that says to Interior, "No, you do not need it because we are doing this for somebody else"? Where is the group that says to the Air Force, "No, you do not need that because we are doing that over here for somebody else"? Coordination by getting along buddy-buddy is not what I am thinking about. I am talking about a central clearinghouse. General LUEDECKE. The work we are doing is being paid for by Interior. Mr. WHITTEN. I realize that, but Interior's money is being paid for by all of the people. I am not being critical, but am using this by way of illustration. General LUEDECKE. I meant we are not challenging their role. Mr. WHITTEN. You do not second-guess the fellow who comes to you. You just take his money and do the job. General LUEDECKE. We have at Oak Ridge a particularly wellqualified group of people to do the job. Mr. WHITTEN. That Interior wants done. General LUEDECKE. That they wanted done as part of their program. Mr. WHITTEN. Whether Interior needed that or not is beyond your responsibility. General LUEDECKE. Yes; that is true in this case. Mr. WHITTEN. And whether some other department may be doing it or some private organization may be doing it, it is not your responsibility so to advise Interior. General LUEDECKE. This is Interior's responsibility. Mr. WHITTEN. That is right. So, it leaves Interior responsible for Interior, and Agriculture for Agriculture. You know, the biggest victory I ever won since I have been in Congress, I believe, if I may say so, was when I got Army witnesses before a Navy subcommittee one time. We deal with these departments in different subcommittees, and it makes it extremely difficult to do what I am trying to raise here. It is difficult for the Congress to do it. We have our problems just as much as you have. General LUEDECKE. I appreciate that. In this case, I think the Bureau of the Budget forms one clearinghouse on the Executive side. Mr. WHITTEN. I did not have reference merely to water. I was talking about the overall operation. General LUEDECKE. This program is reviewed also by the President's scientific adviser and the Scientific Advisory Committee, with a view to determining whether it is a suitable program and whether there is duplication. There is a special subcommittee of the President's Scientific Advisory Committee on this one problem. The President's scientific adviser also participates with Interior and the Commission in this study program. Mr. WHITTEN. So, you have a group that has that responsibility. General LUEDECKE. Yes, sir. Mr. WHITTEN. Thank you. Mr. EVINS. If there are no further questions on the reactor development program, we thank you and your staff, Doctor. Dr. PITTMAN. Your last comment was most satisfying, because that $15 million I need will do just what you asked me to do. PHYSICAL RESEARCH PROGRAM Mr. EVINS. We shall next take up the physical research program, on which Dr. Paul W. McDaniel is the principal witness. We shall place in the record at this point, pages 226 through 263, and pages 64 through 75 of book II covering the physical research program. (The pages referred to follow :) The physical research program is directed toward discovering natural laws relevant to the Commission's responsibilities for the development, use, and control of nuclear energy. Within this framework, investigations are undertaken in the fields of physics, chemistry, metallurgy, and materials, and controlled thermonuclear research. There follows a brief statement of principal objectives within each scientific discipline. Physics 1. To attain a comprehensive understanding of those phenomena which contribute to the establishment of a consistent theory, explaining, in general, the behavior of nuclei, nuclear components, and nuclear forces. 2. To advance the study of nuclear forces and to build up both a theoretical and empirical knowledge of nuclear structure and nuclear processes. 3. To provide the basic nuclear data, particularly in the field of neutron cross sections, as needed in the weapons and reactor programs. 4. To improve existing and to develop new devices such as accelerators and computers that will be of us in the overall AEC program. 5. To devise new methods of treating mathematical problems that arise in connection with AEC programs. Chemistry 1. To advance basic knowledge in those fields of chemical science related to atomic energy. 2. Where the state of knowledge permits, and the need exists, to orient this knowledge toward, and development of it for the practical operations of the atomic energy program. 3. To provide for use in the atomic energy program the necessary quantities of rare, highly enriched special isotopes and special research materials. Metallurgy and materials 1. To evolve a true, coherent concept of the basic structures and mechanisms which govern the properties and behavior of materials related to the atomic energy program. 2. To apply the basic knowledge evolved to the development of materials technology in order to alleviate materials-related problems of the atomic energy program. Controlled thermonuclear 1. To heat and confine a plasma at a particle-energy sufficient to yield significant amounts of thermonuclear energy during the time of confinement. 2. To study such plasma, and, if it be found feasible, to design and build a pilot thermonuclear plant yielding net power. 3. To produce economically competitive fusion power. The increase of $36,407,000 in fiscal year 1964 over the level of $182,670,000 estimated for fiscal year 1963 is summarized as follows: 1. An increase of $16,626,000 in high-energy physics applied to— Research programs related to operating machines_ Advanced accelerator design studies-- Total__. 2. An increase in low-energy physics research of__ 3. An increase in mathematics and computer research of.... 5. An increase in metallurgy and materials programs of.... $13, 436, 000 3, 190, 000 16, 626, 000 6, 199, 000 2, 162, 000 7,273, 000 4,587, 000 --940, 000 500,000 36, 407, 000 Estimate, fiscal year 1964 $121, 149, 000 49, 365, 000 24, 313, 000 23,750,000 500,000 219, 077,000 1 Includes comparability adjustment of $2,310,000 in fiscal year 1962 and $2,046,000 in fiscal year 1963 for costs associated with stable isotopes production budgeted as a physical research program activity in fiscal year 1964 but budgeted and costed in prior years under the isotopes inventory account. Does not include amounts of $800,000 in fiscal year 1962 and $1,000,000 in fiscal year 1963 for costs associated with mathematics and programing research budgeted as a separate program activity in fiscal year 1964, but distributed to other program activities in prior years. JUSTIFICATION BY CATEGORIES 1. PHYSICS AND MATHEMATICS RESEARCH, $121,149,000 There are included within the physics and mathematics program estimates for the following activities: A. High-energy physics, $84,648,000 The field of high-energy physics has stimulated the research efforts of many of the most capable contemporary physical scientists in the United States. This area of physics is primarily aimed at attaining a fundamental understanding of the properties of the particles of which all matter is formed. In the past year the discovery of the anti-xi-minus particle corroborated the hypothesis that for every particle there exists its corresponding antiparticle. Also, at the end of fiscal year 1962, results were obtained which demonstrated the existence of two kinds of neutrinos-those which arise from pi-meson decay and those associated with the process of beta decay. The existence of two types of neutrinos had been previously conjectured, in order to account for the modes of particle decay which are experimentally observed. The results encourage the search for the boson particle which has been postulated as serving as the agent which accounts for the so-called weak interactions. The complexity of the world of elementary particles has become strikingly apparent through recent discoveries of a wealth of new "resonances," or shortlived elementary particle states. The three-meson omega resonance, discovered in the latter part of 1961, represents an early example of the many multimeson, meson-nucleon, and meson-baryon resonant states whose existence has been revealed in recent months. It is essential for the investigation and ultimate interpretation of high-energy phenomena to explore and to demonstrate unambiguously the existence of such states, and to determine their characteristics with good statistical accuracy. In order to bring about the high-energy reactions required to create these elementary particles under controlled laboratory conditions, and to study their properties and interactions, it is necessary to use high-energy accelerators which typically operate in the multi-Bev range. Research with accelerators now in operation has pointed clearly to the potential utility of facilities which will permit an extension of the research to still higher energies, and also indicates the need for accelerators of higher intensity. With the startup in early fiscal year 1964 of the 12.5-Bev zero gradient synchrotron at the Argonne National Laboratory, the Commission will have eight major machines fully operational. These include the 30-Bev alternating gradient proton synchrotron and cosmotron at the Brookhaven National Laboratory, the 6-Bev bevatron at the Lawrence Radiation Laboratory, the 3-Bev PrincetonPennsylvania synchrotron, the 6-Bev Cambridge electron accelerator, and several electron synchrotrons and proton synchrocyclotrons of lesser energies. The research programs utilizing the particles accelerated by these machines, associated theoretical studies and the estimated costs of actual machine operation require an increase of $11,526,000 in fiscal year 1964. This increase reflects not only an attempt to maximize the efficient utilization of the machines themselves but also the capability to perform more complex and sophisticated experiments with considerably greater requirements for precision and statistical accuracy. The development of techniques for automatic data analysis and pattern recognition, aided by data processing with high-speed electronic computers, is also a significant contributory factor in the increased level of support required for this program. Activity in connection with the Stanford linear accelerator complex continues as planned. Construction-related research and development is trending downward as actual physical construction gains momentum. Major emphasis over the next several years will shift to buildup of preoperational activity looking toward immediate utilization of the machine upon completion of construction. A sizable portion of the research supported under this category is performed by university scientists through the contract research program. A pronounced growth of university "machine-user groups" is projected, with efforts devoted in increasing measure to data analysis and associated activities related to accelerator utilization. An increase of $1,910,000 is required for this portion of the university program. |