Mr. FURCOLO. You agreed on that?

Mr. BONNY. We agreed on the type of vehicle; yes.

Colonel DERBY. I might add that the 200-ton roller is approximately the weight of a B-36, but it is a somewhat more severe test, because the wheel load distribution, the weight load, is much heavier, so that we have every reason to feel that if it stood up under the test it is probably-it was virtually certain-under similar conditions that it would stand up under a B-36.

Mr. DONNELLY. I think we should have for the record the exact dimensions of this parking apron and the points where the failures occurred and a statement as to how many failures did occur. The photographs give an indication.

Colonel DERBY. That can be supplied.

Mr. FURCOLO. You can submit that for the record later, with the exact dimensions.

General NOLD. We will submit that.

Mr. FURCOLO. I do not know whether the Atlas contractors might also want to submit a statement or whether they want to check with the engineers.

Mr. BONNY. I do not believe so, because after all we would accept their check, because they have better records. Their record would be satisfactory.

Mr. FURCOLO. If there is no objection, we will have that information inserted in the record at this point.

(The matter referred to appears on the facing page.)

Mr. DONNELLY. Mr. Bonny testified, if I understood his testimony, that the reason for the failure of this parking apron at Nouasseur was by virtue of the test of the 200-ton roller under those conditions.

Mr. BONNY. Yes. And I would be glad to amplify on that if I may. Mr. DONNELLY. I just want to find out if Colonel Derby would agree with the opinion expressed concerning the failure.

Colonel DERBY. There certainly was a failure

Mr. FURCOLO. May I ask this question, just to clarify my own thinking? It is not clear to me from the testimony. In view of the saturated condition under which the test was made, I would like to know whether or not you are of the opinion that there would have been a failure had there not been the saturated condition of the ground? Mr. BONNY. Definitely not, definitely not. And I will be happy to amplify that statement.

Maybe I should correct it by saying we did not expect the failure, but we were afraid it might fail. I think probably that would be closer to being an accurate statement. Colonel Derby wanted to be sure there would be no failure, of course.

I know that personally I was concerned when I heard that a 200-ton roller had been put on this area, which I knew had been in a saturated condition, and I made the statement, I believe-and I possibly was not justified in making the statement, because I was not actually present when the test was made, but I was in Morocco at this time the point was that this area was not completed, and there was an effort being made, under extreme urgency, to take care of the parking apron requirements for planes, to get as much of the area paved as was possible to do. For that reason, instead of paving a portion of the strip and then stopping to put on the top sealing course, we attempted to cover as much of the area as possible.

Based on normal weather predictions, we and everyone else had the right to expect that there would be ample time to come in and put the top coat on the entire area prior to the time the heavy rainy season would set in. In the meantime it would be possible to utilize and make the area available for the Air Force, the parking apron. That was the basis of it. It was another phase of the crash program. When the heavy storms came, though, the drainage was not completed, which caused the subbase to be somewhat saturated, and the one binder course over the paving that we had put over this area was porous, which meant by the time the storm came it was in a completely saturated condition.

I am not going to criticize or even say that Colonel Derby was not correct in his reasoning or that his reasons were not entirely correct. The point is that it was admittedly a very heavy test under this condition, and I think Colonel Derby will agree with that. The fact of the matter is that something happened that all of us were concerned with. But anyone aware of the conditions cannot subscribe to the descriptions that have been made of large losses, because with proper repairs, through the use of reasonable repair measures, they are going to have a good parking apron. There is no question about that. It will be just as good when the drainage is completed.

Mr. FURCOLO. Would you care to give us an estimate as to how much money it would take when you speak about reasonable repair measures?

Mr. BONNY. I would prefer not to make any attempt until these tests have been completed and the criteria are set up. My opinion would be so low that I do not think it would be fair. I do not think it would be fair to make an estimate, but I certainly do not agree that it would be in any such figures as have been indicated. I am not a testing expert. When the tests have been completed and a proper decision arrived at, I do not think it will be very difficult to get an estimate. I would prefer not to attempt to do so under these conditions.

Mr. FURCOLO. I would expect only an estimate, but under the conditions you do not feel you would care to express an opinion?

Mr. BONNY. It would be very difficult to say what it is going to cost to do the repairing until you knew the methods to be used and the extent of the repairs to be done.

Mr. FURCOLO. Would anyone care to make a guess?

General NOLD. I would not wish to hazard a guess. Our program of testing is quite complete and quite elaborate. We want to go over the base; we want to go over the paving; and we want it to meet the conditions expected by the Air Force for operation. Of course, we will get that, but as to what will be required, I think it would be foolish to state without having the complete data. We need to know the other measures that are pertinent.

Mr. FURCOLO. Are there any further questions on this phase?

Mr. DAVIS. This goes to the point about which we have been talking specifications and I wonder if we could clarify this.

When did you say, Colonel Haseman, the test with the 200-ton roller was made-late in October?

Colonel HASEMAN. Sometime after the middle of November.

LACK OF PLANS FOR DRAINAGE OF APRON AT NOUASSEUR IN ADVANCE OF CONSTRUCTION OF BASE COURSE

Mr. DONNELLY. Let me read you this statement, if I may, and this is a statement by the Atlas Constructors:

Due to lack of plans, and despite Atlas' repeated requests for them, the drainage of the operation apron was not constructed in advance of the base course. Final drainage plans were received November 16, 1951, after the tests with the 200-ton roller were started.

Do you agree with that statement?

Colonel HASEMAN. I am certainly in no position to deny it.

Colonel DERBY. The rolling was done subsequent to Armistice Day because I remember General Nold was over there over the Armistice Day holiday, and it delayed his departure. Whether it occurred the 14th or the 18th is a matter of no particular consequence in this. The big storm occurred at the time General Nold was there, which was about the 8th or the 12th.

Mr. FURCOLO. If you cannot fix the date, are you able to determine, with reference to the drainage plans, whether they were received before or after the tests with the 200-ton roller?

Colonel DERBY. Approximately concurrently. The drainage plans are relatively elaborate affairs. It takes weeks and months to complete them, so if the plans were approved to proceed a day of two before or after that is irrelevant. I would not dispute Mr. Bonny's contention.

Mr. FURCOLO. For the record, would you care to put your comment in, Mr. Bonny?

Mr. BONNY. I agree with Colonel Derby's statement.

Mr. MCCLARY. The date of November 16 that is mentioned here is the date we received the plans in our office.

Mr. FURCOLO. The people in the field had them at some earlier time? Mr. McCLARY. I would not think that, because they would come to our office first. They might, however, in the normal course of business, be a week getting through the various channels and into our office.

General DERBY. In connection with this thing, every time we had a change in the master plan it required a complete revision of the whole drainage program because you could not put a ditch under a hangar, or something of that sort.

I have here a few typical examples of the changing that the master plan was going through. It became impossible to formulate a complate drainage plan at the time we would have likened to do it.

Mr. FURCOLO. I wonder if you have a small map that could be inserted in the record at this point that would tell the story.

Colonel DERBY. Since all of these maps are obsolete plans, I see no reason why they should be classified. The one that I have in my hand is current, so suppose I give you the others and tell you that they are not classified. I think that would be legitimate. I can tell you

there is another one.

Mr. FURCOLO. Will you describe them very briefly for the record? Colonel DERBY. Each one is a different plan.

At the time that the difficulty took place this plan was in effect [indicating], and the operation apron is right up here [indicating].