the military service is a worthwhile service. That is what I was trying to say in my statement. I didn't mean for any emphasis to, in any way, be construed as not properly answering your question, sir. Mr. DOYLE. I wish you would think over my question outside the room. Secretary BURGESS. We have some studies that I think would reveal the basis for my answer, sir. Mr. DOYLE. I think there must be more reasons, Mr. Secretary, than that. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Durham. Mr. DURHAM. Mr. Burgess. Secretary BURGESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DURHAM. You are supposed to be the head of the manpower situation of the whole United States, not only for the armed services. but from an economic standpoint and everything else. Secretary BURGESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DURHAM. In connection with what we need for military purposes. I have been concerned about the cost of these individual soldiers, although it is a small percentage-you list it here as 6.1 percent above the age of 26. Secretary BURGESS. Yes. Mr. DURHAM. From a manpower standpoint have you actual costs on all of those above the age of 26? Secretary BURGESS. I don't think the cost-if I understand your question right, Mr. Durham Mr. DURHAM. I think we here as Members of the Congress naturally have to take into consideration the cost of a soldier in the overall picture. Secretary BURGESS. I don't think the cost of that soldier is any greater than the cost of his being brought in at an earlier time, sir. Mr. DURHAM. Well, Mr. Burgess, the average one has 1, 2, and 3 children. I am thinking about the low end of this barrel. Secretary BURGESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DURHAM. I think we are at the wrong end of this barrel. That has always been my opinion. I would much prefer to go to 17 years of age than be up above 26 years of age. I mean, because of the economic situation that the individual is in, obligation that he has assumed, family relations, what he is worth to the community, the life of the Nation and everything else. I think he is potentially worth more to raise some more future soldiers than he is in the position of going in and have to serve in the services 2 years. Secretary BURGESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DURHAM. That is my opinion. Now, I don't know whether you made any study on it or not. As far as I know, you just made a simple statement here and seemed to pass it over and not being serious in the picture at all. Secretary BURGESS. I think the point of the seriousness, sir, is to show Mr. DURHAM. Now, you have come up here and endorsed the 4-year draft. Secretary BURGESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DURHAM. Now, a 4-year draft, of course, is quite a serious. problem for the American people. Secretary BURGESS. And we realize that, sir. Mr. DURHAM. And we took it seriously. I do, because the economic life of this country is sustained by the young people of the country, primarily. I have always supported the draft, and I am supporting this one. But the question arises, of course, as to whether or not you as the manpower agent of the Federal Government have projected this whole thing on whether it would be more economical on a 2-year basis or whether it would be more economical to go down and recommend the 17-year-old. Some people I know haven't nerve enough to do it because the mothers would be on your back. But after all, I have had a little experience in this, in my own family. I know how it turned out. I think the 17-year-old boy is just as good a soldier as a man 28 and 30 years old. And I dare any man in the Army or anywhere else to prove to me otherwise. Secretary BURGESS. Well, I am not Mr. DURHAM. You made no study as to the economic thing, of the cost here? Secretary BURGESS. I have made no study of the economic features outside of the service, sir. I have made a study and know about the figures of the cost of the soldier in the service. The only point that I thought you were making there was the cost. of the soldier over 26 in the service as opposed to the one at age 17. Mr. DURHAM. No. You are just coming up more or less and endorsing what we had in effect all the time. Now, we have changing conditions in this country. We have changing world conditions. Secretary BURGESS. I don't think- Mr. DURHAM. Can you tell me, have you made a study of the manpower situation of NATO, our allies? Secretary BURGESS. Yes, sir; we have that. Mr. DURHAM. You have that? Secretary BURGESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DURHAM. Can you give us some comparisons? Secretary BURGESS. Yes, we can. Mr. DURHAM. Percentagewise, as to how we are competing with these people. I want to know something about what kind of assistance we have, as well as what we have to do ourselves. Secretary BURGESS. You asked in the NATO countries. Mr. DURHAM. That is right. Secretary BURGESS. About whether it is compulsory for all eligible men to serve in some branch of the service? Mr. DURHAM. Just give us right down the line and tell us what we are doing. Secretary BURGESS. Yes. Can I ask Colonel Roll to go down through the list? Mr. DURHAM. Yes. Just so you give it to us. The CHAIRMAN. All right, Colonel. Colonel ROLL. All men are required to register for call in Belgium, Denmark, France, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Turkey, United Kingdom. Mr. DURHAM. Just required to register, with no service? Colonel ROLL. That will be the second part. Mr. DURHAM. All right. Colonel ROLL. Canada does not require registration. Compulsory service is required in some branch of the service in all countries except Canada, and in Greece and Italy it is on a selective basis. The others it is compulsory service. Mr. DURHAM. All right. Now give us the length of service for each country that they require. We are going to be asked these questions on the floor. I just want to hear them. Colonel ROLL. All right sir. The length of initial training for service. Now this varies, Mr. Durham, between countries and then within countries between services. I can give it to you for any NATO country, for any service. I can give you some illustrations which will indicate the scope. Mr. DURHAM. Well, the question we want to know is whether he serves 1 year or 2 years in the army. Colonel ROLL. In the army, sir? Mr. DURHAM. In the armed forces, or in the army. Colonel ROLL. I will indicate in the army-Belgium, 18 months; Canada, 3 years; Denmark, 18 months; France 16 months Secretary BURGESS. 18 months. Colonel ROLL. 18 months in France. Greece, 18 months for infantry, and 21 months for other services. Italy, 18 months legally; actually, it is closer to 15 to 16 months, in practice. Netherlands, 18 to 21 months, depending on grade and duty assignment. Norway, 16 months. Portugal, 22 months. Turkey, 24 months. United Kingdom, 24 months. It varies in other branches of the service, until in the Canadian Navy officers are required to serve up to a period of 7 years, although they may resign and have their resignation accepted. Mr. DURHAM. But that is a volunteer service, though, is it not? Colonel ROLL. Yes, sir. Secretary BURGESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DURHAM. There is no compulsory service in Canada. Mr. DURHAM. Of course, now the other comparison: I think probably you haven't made any comparison as to the actual number they have in the services at the present time comparable with our services, which you can give us? Secretary BURGESS. I think those are classified. Mr. DURHAM. All right. Keep those off the record. I won't ask you. I don't know why you should classify that. Mr. JOHNSON. I want to ask a question. Secretary BURGESS. We will be glad to go over that with you, Mr. Durham. Mr. JOHNSON. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. DURHAM. Just a moment. I want to see how you get into this manpower situation in this country. You have something to do with it. Secretary BURGESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DURHAM. The organization does, at the State level, and county level, do you not? Do you have a so-called designated manpower individual stuck about here and yonder in my State in certain spotsSecretary BURGESS. I imagine that is the Department of Labor, Mr. Durham. Mr. DURHAM. Department of Labor? Mr. DURHAM. It doesn't come under you at all? Secretary BURGESS. I stay in very close touch with them on calculations as I do with the Office of Defense Mobilization. But that is a civilian manpower calculation and responsibility. Mr. DURHAM. When a boy goes into the service and, of course, asks for a hardship discharge, it is referred back usually to the manpower individual in the county. sir. Secretary BURGESS. I believe that is handled in Selective Service, Mr. SHORT. The local board. Mr. BROOKS. It goes back to the Red Cross. Mr. DURHAM. As head of manpower, you are supposed to look after it. The CHAIRMAN. That is Selective Service. Secretary BURGESS. That is correct. Mr. BLANDFORD. That goes back to the local board, with a Red Cross report, Mr. Durham. Mr. DURHAM. I know that. I just wanted to see if he had anything to do with it. The CHAIRMAN. Anything further-wait one minute, Mr. Johnson. Mr. JOHNSON. Will you yield to me? The CHAIRMAN. Wait one minute. Mr. DURHAM. Are you going to give us those figures off the record there? Secretary BURGESS. Be glad to, sir. Mr. DURHAM. You made no study across the board on a 4-year period? Secretary BURGESS. I know what our requirements are over the next 4 years for planning purposes. Mr. DURHAM. Your requirement here by law is 24 months. You project this study beyond the 24-month period? Secretary BURGESS. In our end strength requirement, sir, on a planned basis, I know what we are going to over the next 4-year period, sir, and I know what effects that will have on the manpower pool, and I have some idea of the requirement selective-service-wise. Mr. DURHAM. What I am getting at, Mr. Burgess, is the fact that your birthrate is pretty fast and rapid. You have quite an income in the barrel, and that would put us in the position where we could get a more economical soldier down at the lower end instead of going up here. Mr. BLANDFORD. We are in that situation right now, Mr. Durham. Mr. DURHAM. He is the manpower expert. Let him answer this question. Secretary BURGESS. We think the extension of the draft on the basis that we have offered it here, sir, is the wise and economical one for the country. Mr. DURHAM. You just took it like we have been going through and made no study? Secretary BURGESS. No, sir, we have done a lot of studying. A lot of study preceded my coming to this job. Mr. DURHAM. Whether or not we could make any changes, see, what I am thinking about. Secretary BURGESS. We think we have some pretty good changes in our national reserve plan which is going to offer some additional volunteer possibilities. Mr. DURHAM. Suppose you make a study, if you did make a study, Mr. Burgess, and come in here and find out we have in the, say, 17- to 21-year class of individuals and personally I think we have been deferring too many people through the colleges and ROTC. We will have something to say about that later. But whether or not you could make a study and come in here and make a recommendation to this committee or somewhere along that would put us in the position where we could get a more economical soldier at a lower age. If it is economic to put a man 17 years of age in, why don't you people say so down there. Secretary BURGESS. We are going to give some increased opportunities for the young man of 17 under our national reserve plan. Mr. DURHAM. That is not the draft. I am talking about the draft. Secretary BURGESS. It is a volunteer approach, sir, and we will be up here on that later. Mr. DURHAM. I hope some day we can get into a volunteer service. Secretary BURGESS. If we can answer any questions in detail from our studies we will be most happy to show you the studies we have on them, and I can assure you we have plenty of studies. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Durham-are you through, Mr. Durham? Mr. DURHAM. I am through. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Johnson. Mr. JOHNSON. I was going to ask you to put in very quickly there what the system is, so we can have it in the record and read it. Colonel ROLL. Yes, sir. Switzerland requires all men to register for call, and service is compulsory in some branch of the service in Switzerland. The length of initial training or service for Switzerland in the Air Force is 118 days, in the Army 4 months, and no service is required in the Swiss Navy, sir. [Laughter.] Secretary BURGESS. Let's look up the Reserve. The CHAIRMAN. Well, that gives the information as to the Swiss, then, the Swiss Navy. [Laughter.] All right. Now any further questions to the Secretary? The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Short. Mr. SHORT. Secretary Burgess, you brought out pretty clearly, I think, that during the period back in 1947 when the draft had lapsed and was not in effect, it was difficult, if not impossible, for a youth to get through the volunteer system numbers in adequate quantities to meet the need? Secretary BURGESS. That is what the experience shows. Mr. SHORT. You failed to state, however, and I think this should be made a part of the record, that during that time that the draft was not in effect the Department of Defense and all branches of the armed services did make an earnest, serious, and determined effort to recruit some volunteers. Secretary BURGESS. That is correct, sir. Mr. SHORT. Did you do that before the draft was reinstated in 1948? Secretary BURGESS. That is correct, sir; yes, sir. |