Department and the establishment of an air mail service giving points of contact to Rockford, which has resulted in an increase in the postal receipts at Rockford.

I think our bank clearings there are of interest also. In the year 1929 they amounted to approximately $205,500,000, with deposits of something over $37,000,000. The banking facilities in Rockford consist of seven national banks and one State bank, and all of them are prosperous. That shows the financial situation, so far as the banks are concerned.

We are very proud of Rockford because it was the center of Camp Grant during the days of the war, and since then we have kept pace with it. Our business is increasing, our population is increasing, and our work for the Federal court is increasing.

Our State courts are in session from October until the 31st of July each year. We think we have a very fine city with very fine business, and we think that is the logical place for the court, not only from the point of view of the convenience of the lawyers, but also from the point of view of the convenience of the litigants.

Mr. MICHENER. As a matter of fact, what you want is this: You. want to transfer the court en bloc from Freeport to Rockford.

Mr. GILL. Yes, sir; that is what the bill provides, and we think that is the logical thing to do.

Mr. MICKENER. Your idea would be that there would be nothing left of the court in Freeport; there would be no term there and no court machinery retained at Freeport?

Mr. GILL. So far as the bar of Rockport is concerned and so far as the convenience of the district would be concerned, it would serve us just as well if that court were retained at Freeport and also another court established at Rockford.

Mr. MICKENER. I think I speak the sentiment of the committee when I say that we are not going to establish another court 28 miles from an existing court. This court will either remain where it is, so far as this committee is concerned, or it will be transferred. You might as well understand that the committee is not going to have two places for holding court so close to one another as these two cities are. You, of course, have not gone into the question of the additional expense that the enactment of this legislation would incur. Mr. JONAS. The bill itself provides:

Provided, That suitable rooms and accommodations for holding the said court at Rockford are furnished free of expense to the United States until the United States shall make provision therefor in its own property.

Mr. GILL. We have placed before the committee a resolution of the county board of supervisors to the effect that they will furnish quarters for the court at their expense.

Mr. MICKENER. As an attorney there, you understand the geography of the situation. Have you any prospective quarters which would be available?

Mr. GILL. We have the probate court right now. The probate court room is the room where Judge Landis used to hold his court when he was on the Federal bench. Then, there is in immediate prospect the large circuit court room which is one of the oldfashioned court rooms in the courthouse, built in 1878. I believe. It is large enough to accommodate almost the membership of the House

of Representatives, and the plan is to cut that room right in two and make two court rooms, one of which would be available at any time. Mr. MICHENER. As I understand it, the reason, perhaps, in urging the immediate consideration of this bill is due to the fact that we are about to construct a post-office building in Rockford and that you would like to make arrangements for the permanent quarters of this court in that structure; is that not correct?

Mr. GILL. I think that is an incident. I can not speak for the Congressman, but so far as the bar association of Winnebago County is concerned, that is an incident there. We are perfectly willing to have the Federal court sit in perpetuity in the quarters provided by the county of Winnebago.

What we want there, and what the lawyers in that district want, what the lawyers in Lee and Ogle Counties are asking in the petition. which is before you, is that the court be transferred to Rockford because we feel that the biggest part of the business of the court is in the territory contiguous to Rockford.

Freeport is as contiguous to Rockford as Ogle County. These gentlemen here come to Rockford very often, and make it their headquarters a good deal of the time over there. There are three or four of them going from Rockford west, where there would be one coming east.

Mr. MICHENER. You would be satisfied then if the court was transferred to Rockford to be housed in the quarters which you will furnish free of charge to the Federal Government.

Mr. GILL. Yes, sir; so far as the lawyers are concerned, and I think so far as the court is concerned also, because I know Judge Landis used to hold his court there very, very often, and I know that Judge Woodward, who does most of the work in the western division, would be content to hold court in Rockford.

Mr. MCKEOWN. You say Judge Landis used to hold court in Rockford?

Mr. GILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCKEOWN. Was that under an order of the court?

Mr. GILL. I think it was just under the order of Judge Landis, who held court wherever he pleased. He used to hold court in his hotel room occasionally.

Mr. JOHNSON. I would like to ask the gentleman a question.
Mr. GILL. Mr. Hall is our next witness, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MICHENER. Will you give your name, your residence, and state whom you represent, and what your business is?

STATEMENT OF ROY F. HALL, ROCKFORD, ILL.

Mr. HALL. Roy F. Hall; I am a lawyer. I live at Rockford, Ill., and represent those who are in favor of this bill.

Referring to the question asked by Mr. McKeown, Judge Landis preferred to hold court in Rockford, with what temporary facilities the county would then provide, and by rule of court, and common consent, he held court there week in and week out. He said, "If any of you gentlemen who practice here and any litigants in Rockford want me to go to Freeport, I will go there, but if you do not object, I will hold court here."

There was a bill introduced in Congress to remove that court from Freeport to Rockford about that time, and the Judiciary Committee, the whole committee, recommended that that bill be passed, and they had at that time attached to it a copy of the recommendations of the Department of Justice that the bill be passed, stating that that was the logical place to put that court.

I just mention that in reply to your question so you may know that this matter has been up before. At that time, which was during President Wilson's administration, the Department of Justice unqualifiedly recommended that legislation.

Mr. SPARKS. Do you know what was the result? Was it ever acted upon in the House?

Mr. ĤALL. It came into the House, and former Congressman John McKenzie, the predecessor of Mr. Johnson, very nicely got it recommitted to the committee and we never heard of it again.

Mr. MICHENER. What is the attitude of the judges out there?
Mr. GILL. You mean the Federal judges?

Mr. MICHENER. Yes.

Mr. GILL. There are three district judges there, Judge Carpenter, Judge Wilkerson, and Judge Woodward. Judge Carpenter and Judge Wilkerson do not hold court in the western division. Judge Carpenter has not held court out there but a few times, as I remember, during my practice since 1910.

Mr. MICHENER. That is at Freeport?

Mr. GILL. Yes, sir. Judge Woodward, who was an associate of mine in the attorney general's office until he ceased to be connected there in 1912, came near moving to Rockford. I know Judge Woodward would be very glad to hold court in Rockford under any conditions available. I think Judge Wilkerson would be equally glad to hold court there. I can not speak for him because I have not talked to him personally, but I have talked to a man who has talked to him, and I am satisfied he would be glad to have the court there, because, in the first place, we are a larger city.

Mr. MICHENER. I appreciate your reasons. I think the committee understands. We just want the facts, and not the argument. You may produce your next witness.

Mr. GILL. That is all we have, if the committee please.

Mr. MICHENER. Do you desire to say anything at this time, Mr. Buckbee?

Mr. BUCKBEE. I will waive my time, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MICHENER. Mr. Johnson, we will be glad to hear whatever statement you may desire to make at this time.

STATEMENT OF HON. WILLIAM R. JOHNSON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am from Freeport. The sole object of moving this court, as the gentleman stated, is a selfish reason. The Federal court has been in Freeport for 25 years, and it is right there now in a Federal building. We do not have to take the court and put it up in a hayloft. We have already an appropriation in the Elliott bill of $275,000 to improve the Federal court and post office at Freeport, which bill has

passed and signed by the President, and we have already spent $58.000 to buy the new property.

Mr. MICHENER. You say you have this appropriation, that the bill has been signed by the President.

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. MICHENER. What do you mean by that?

Mr. JOHNSON. I mean just this, Mr. Chairman, that in the Elliott public buildings bill we have an appropriation of $275,000 to increase and improve the Federal court and post-office building at Freeport.

Mr. MICHENER. Has there been an allocation?

Mr. JOHNSON. It is already appropriated, and they are building it. Mr. MICHENER. They are building it?

Mr. JOHNSON. They are tearing down the building right now, and the idea of moving this court to Rockford

Mr. MICHENER (interposing). They are building the building now?

Mr. JOHNSON. They are drawing the plans to enlarge the Federal court and post-office building.

Mr. MICHENER. Wait a minute right there. If they are building the building, they are not building the building unless the plans have been completed and approved. Are those plans completed and approved providing for the Federal court?

Mr. JOHNSON. It provides for the improvement of the Federal court and post-office building at Freeport, and they are now drawing the plans, but the money is already appropriated.

Mr. MICHENER. I know; I want to get this complete picture, because it is very important. As I understand it, the money has been appropriated.

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.

Mr. MICHENER. And the site has been purchased.

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir, and they paid $58,000 for it.

Mr. MICHENER. The plans are now in process of completion?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes; they are making a survey; they were doing that when I left Freeport a week ago.

Mr. MICHENER. And those plans contemplate a Federal court building?

Mr. JOHNSON. Absolutely, and a post-office building. We have the post office and the Federal court there now, and the court has been there for 25 years. As far as railroad facilities are con

cerned

Mr. MICHENER (interposing). In other words, if this bill was enacted it would require the Supervising Architect of the Treasury to change his plans.

Mr. JOHNSON. Absolutely.

Mr. MICHENER. You may proceed.

Mr. SPARKS. Pursuing further the inquiry of the chairman, you now have a Government post-office building in Freeport.

Mr. JOHNSON. And a Federal court.

Mr. SPARKS. This new appropriation is for an enlarged building? Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; at Freeport.

Mr. SPARKS. To enlarge the old building.

Mr. JOHNSON. It has been passed by the House and the Senate. and signed by the President. It is in the Elliott building bill.

Mr. MICHENER. We appreciate that. What I am getting at is this. They usually put another story on these buildings under those circumstances. Is that the plan here?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right.

Mr. MICHENER. For the Federal court?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.

Mr. MICHENER. If this court were moved from Freeport to Rockford they probably would change the plans there and go up higher to provide for the court.

Mr. JOHNSON. The question is right here: Court is being held now in Freeport. I can speak for the Federal judges too. Judge Carpenter told me himself that it was the logical place to hold court. We have in Freeport one of the finest hotels in northern Illinois, a 150-room hotel in a town of 25,000 people.

All of this population that Mr. Gill is talking about is as close to Freeport as it is to Rockford. There are cement roads all through there. We have five railroads going through there, and an interurban car line. We have the same facilities.

The only question at issue here is that Rockford wants the court, which is already being held in Freeport, and has been held there for 25 years.

Mr. SPARKS. When the Federal post-office building you now have was built the Federal court was being held there at that time?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; the building with the Federal court in it, with those facilities.

Mr. SPARKS. It was all built at that time?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; 25 years ago.

Mr. SPARKS. And this new bill provides for an enlargement of the court room you already have?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; and the post office. As far as the lawyers are concerned, I went all over the district myself, and dozens of them told me that while they had signed this petition, they said, "If you had come to me, I would have signed it for you." It did not make any difference to them. That is not the issue at all. It is only 28 miles away.

Mr. MICHENER. If we were to establish a court to-day

Mr. JOHNSON (interposing). The court is established, and has been established there for 25 years.

Mr. MICHENER. Wait just a moment. I say, if we were establishing a court now it would be established undoubtedly in the larger city nearer the center of population.

Mr. JOHNSON. As a matter of fact, the center of population is 12 miles south of Freeport, and not Rockford.

Mr. MICHENER. It is a good deal like Washington and Georgetown. Georgetown was here and was quite a town before Washington was established. You may proceed.

Mr. JOHNSON. I want to introduce to the committee at this time Mr. Middlekuff, one of the leading practicing attorneys in Freeport. STATEMENT OF C. W. MIDDLEKUFF, ATTORNEY AT LAW, FREEPORT, ILL.

Mr. MICHENER. Will you state your name, your residence, and your occupation?

Mr. MIDDLEKUFF. C. W. Middlekuff, attorney at law, practicing at Freeport, Ill., speaking against the bill.