If you are going to censor press dispatches at all, unless you favor simply abolishing the censorship of outgoing press dispatches entirely, it seems to me that you cannot shave it much finer than that.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. From the domestic standpoint, do you feel that the people have been getting the whole truth, insofar as it does not play into the hands of the enemy?

Mr. PRICE. Well, by and large, I would say so. Certainly they have not been getting the whole truth. I do not think you can have the newspapers printing the whole truth in wartime. I have disagreed, other people have disagreed sometimes, with the policy of the War Department or the Navy Department as to what was given out. I felt on some occasions that they should be more liberal. I felt on some occasions that they were a little careless, giving out things that they probably should not; but on the whole

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The determination is theirs and not yours?
Mr. PRICE. That is right.

REPORTS DIVISION, NUMBER OF PERSONNEL

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I notice that in your Reports Division, you have something like 380 people provided for. You have a Digest Section of 10, an Allocation Section of 89, a Distribution Section of 110, and a Files Section of 145.

Is not that Division more complicated and larger than is required in order to get along with the work?

Mr. PRICE. I do not think so. We reorganized this Division and simplified it somewhat 6 months or so ago. I will be very glad to tell you what these sections do. It is more or less set forth in the justification.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You have set it forth briefly in the justifications. I have been through those. But, for instance, why do you need those four sections-an Editorial Section, a Digest Section, a Distribution Section, and an Allocation Section? Why can you not combine forces there to some extent and realize a reduction in the over-all set-up? Mr. PRICE. The Allocation Section budgets 89 people.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. One hundred ten in the Distribution Section. Mr. PRICE. If you combined them, you would still have to have a certain number of executives to supervise that many people, whether you call it a section or two sections.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The functions as you have them in your justification, seem to me so closely related as to indicate that you might make a substantial reduction there.

Mr. PRICE. The heart of this Division, of course, is the Allocation Section. There are 89 people who are trained very carefully for a period of time, to decide to what other agency a certain piece of information would be valuable. They exercise judgment.

The Distribution Section, of course, is just a duplicating and delivery section. That is on an entirely different pay scale.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. By the delivery section, you mean somebody that puts the things in an envelope inside the office, or messenger service?

Mr. PRICE. After the intercepts are marked by the allocators, assigned to a certain place, they are sorted in the Distribution Section

so that the messengers will know where they go. Those going, for instance, to the War Department on any given day are put into a locked pouch and are taken by the Distribution Section under guard to a certain place in the War Department, where they can be delivered only to a certain designated person who signs for it. The Distribution Section also does some typing and runs duplicating machines to make additional copies of the intercepts if necessary.

CABLE DIVISION

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You have something like $1,000,000 set up here for your Cable Division. How many offices are there in the field; and how many places are there where you have personnel?

Mr. PRICE. The major stations are New York, Miami, New Orleans, San Antonio, Tucson, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Honolulu, San Juan, and Balboa.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. That is 11.

Mr. PRICE. Those are the principal stations.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. That is an average of about 130 per station. Mr. PRICE. But there are not anything like all of the personnel at those 11 places.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Have you got a list of the personnel per station, anywhere?

Mr. POPE. You will find that on pages 90 and 91.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. They run all the way from 1,469 in New York to 75 in Tucson. Do you know, on the average, how many cables a day are censored individually?

Mr. PRICE. It depends on what you count as a workweek. On the basis of a 7-day week-and the cable operation is 7 days a week-it would run about 50,000 a day, upward of that.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. At all of the stations?

Mr. PRICE. That is the total.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Fifty thousand a day for

Mr. PRICE. That is on a 7-day week basis. However, Sunday and Saturday afternoons it falls off considerably and it humps up in the week.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Fifty thousand a day, with 1,400 people, would make about 35 or 36 cables per day per individual, if my arithmetic is right.

Mr. PRICE. Of course, they are not all actually censoring cables. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Do you know how many censors we have on the rolls now, in the field?

Mr. PRICE. I believe there are about 66 percent of the personnel actually censoring.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. About 650, something like that.

Mr. PRICE. I think I see what you are trying to arrive at

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I am trying to get some idea of the load you are putting on the individual, and whether you need as large a force as you are asking for.

Mr. PRICE. It is very difficult to say, on that basis. For instance, we have four people in Baltimore. That is a little substation there. It is a radio station. They may not be busy all the time, but it is an around-the-clock proposition. They have got to be there. There is

no other way I know of to keep an enemy agent from using that station. There are nine people in Akron, Ohio. That is a 24-hour watch, 7 days a week. It is the Firestone station which communicates with Liberia.

I imagine the workload in that station is very low, nothing like what it would be in a big station like New York, where they are really busy; not only because of the difference in load in different places, but because of the difference in load at different times, it is pretty hard to arrive at an exact figure.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Will you put something in the record that wou'd indicate the individual load that is assumed by the censor in the Postal Division, also?

Mr. PRICE. Yes, sir. I shall be glad to do that.

Monthly average work load per censor

Postal Division messages.

Cable Division messages_

1, 064

1,695

The cable average does not include the monitoring of telephone calls.

EXPENSES OF ATTENDANCE AT MEETINGS

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You have some language in here asking for money for expenses of attendance at meetings of organizations concerned with the work of the office. Have you any idea what that would run to? There is no limitation in here. How much have you spent this year for that purpose?

Mr. PRICE. The Press Division has sent a man twice to the west coast attending State meetings of press associations. I have attended several myself; meetings of the Southern Newspaper Publishers Association; the American Newspaper Publishers Association; the American Society of Newspaper Editors, and so forth.

The Broadcasting Division has done a similar job with the National Association of Broadcasters at its district conventions which are held around through the country, in a series. I think that is rather essential to the operation of those two divisions.

TRAVEL EXPENSE AND PURCHASE OF UNIFORMS, BOOKS, ETC.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. When you revise your remarks will you insert the amount that you expect to spend for that purpose in fiscal 1943; also the amount that you expect to spend for that travel, if that is not in here; and also the amount that you expect to spend in 1943 for that item which appears in the appropriation language, "Purchase of guard uniforms, lawbooks, books of reference, newspapers, and periodicals"? Mr. PRICE. You say the amount we expect to spend for that purpose. Do you mean travel for attending meetings?

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Three items. One was the attendance of meetings; one was the traveling expenses, including the per diem; and the third was the general item, including books of reference, newspapers, and periodicals. All three appear in the appropriation language without limitation.

Mr. PRICE. I think it should be pointed out that the amount spent for travel attending these conventions is really to keep liaison with

people in the publishing business and the broadcasting business that we are asking so many things of, in lieu of branch offices. Those divisions have no branch offices anywhere in the country, and the expense, I think, is much smaller if we spend a little money going around to see them once in a while than it would be if we opened up a lot of branches.

1. Attendance at meetings of organizations concerned with work of the Office of Censorship..

2. $10 per diem and other expenses of persons serving as advisers.

3. Purchase of guard uniforms, law books, newspapers, gloves, aprons, etc..

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I think the chairman asked about the substantial increase in your printing and binding item; did he?

Mr. PRICE. Yes; he did. That is a transfer.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman.

EMPLOYMENT OF ALIENS

Mr. TABER. How many aliens do you have on your
Mr. PRICE. As of April 19, 139.

roll?

Mr. TABER. What nationality are they, mostly, and what do they do?

Mr. PRICE. I should say most of them are Latin-American. I will give you the location. There are 139, of whom 98 are in the Canal Zone. They are Spanish translators. They are Panamanians, perhaps, and Costa Ricans. I am not sure. Twenty-seven are in New York. Some of them I know are uncommon language translators.

There are four in Miami, four in New Orleans, two in Los Angeles, one in Washington, one in Chicago, one in San Francisco, and one in San Jose. That one is undoubtedly used as a consultant by the San Francisco office on uncommon languages.

CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN UNITED STATES AND OTHER COUNTRIES

Mr. TABER. On the letters that go abroad, is there as much mail or correspondence between this country and our allies and this country and neutrals as there was a year ago?

Colonel CARLSON. I would say that the total is almost the same, but that the classes of mail have changed, so that whereas there has been a reduction, say, from continental Europe to the United States, there has been a natural increase in military mail from north Africa to the United States, so that the actual total of mail is almost the same, whereas the individual classes have decreased.

Likewise, there has been a great increase in mail to and from Latin America, whereas there has been a definite decrease in mail to and from the Far East.

EMPLOYEES IN SOUTH AMERICA

Mr. TABER. You seem to have a lot more employees set up for next year in South America than you had this year. Why is that?

86664-43

Colonel CARLSON. That is the foreign liaison posts?

Mr. TABER. Yes.

Colonel CARLSON. Well, it was not until the end of last year that the two defense committees in Montevideo were able to have adopted by the various members a convention that they would all establish a form of censorship in their respective countries. Until that has been accepted by those Governments and until they are willing to request our assistance through the State Department, we do not propose to send anyone there.

These assignments are on the increase, since most of the LatinAmerican governments have accepted the recommendations of the committees. There will be a natural increase of the liaison officers in Latin America.

CABLE OFFICE IN AKRON

Mr. TABER. Why do you have a cable office in Akron?

Captain FENN. It is the United States terminal of the United StatesLiberia Radio Corporation. It is a subsidiary of the Firestone Rubber Co. and carries on rubber traffic with Liberia.

CENSORSHIP ON NEWS GOING OUTSIDE

Mr. TABER. To what extent is there censorship on news outside of the United States-that is, sent to Great Britain, South America, and so on?

Mr. PRICE. You mean news going out from this country or coming in?

Mr. TABER. Going out.

Mr. PRICE. It all passes through our hands. Censorship, as I said a short time ago, is rather light. We censor for military security almost entirely.

Mr. TABER. You mean as to whether or not it is information relating to military activity, or something of that sort, that should not go out? Mr. PRICE. Yes, sir.

Mr. TABER. Do you censor things that take place here in the House or in the Senate?

Mr. PRICE. Our general practice is that nothing said on the floor of the House or Senate shall be stopped going out of the country except in a case where there apparently is some very great disclosure of military information, and then we would consider whether to stop it or not. I mean if a Member would get up and disclose the entire strength of General MacArthur in Australia

Mr. TABER. There has not been anything of that kind, has there? (There was a discussion off the record.)

Mr. PRICE. So far as domestic publication is concerned, we have held repeatedly, from the very first, that anything that a Member of Congress wanted to say, either on the floor or off, was privileged for publication.

(There was a discussion off the record.)

CENSORSHIP OF RELEASES OF FEDERAL AGENCIES

Mr. TABER. Mr. Price, does anybody do anything toward trying to censor some of these things that some of these Government agencies