We are directed to be involved in, to engage in program planning, and comprehensive surveys of the various rivers of this country, with the idea of having them used and developed in a manner which will minimize the resulting water pollution.

Mr. ROGERS. Speaking of the research, I notice the Office of Science and Technology has just published in February 1964 the Federal water resources research program for fiscal year 1965. I think I notice that there are 5 departments, including 22 bureaus or equivalent units and 3 independent agencies with proposed water resources research programs for fiscal year 1965. Of course, the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare is listed in that, with the subdivision of the Public Health Service.

Mr. QUIGLEY. That is right, sir.

Mr. ROGERS. Are all of the research programs being handled by your public health service?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Basically I would say they are in this area, yes.

Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Quigley, with regard to these powers you have enumerated which you received under the 1956 act, is it the position of the Bureau, or, rather, of your Department, that this would give you the power to go in and construct a water project involving the expenditure of several millions of dollars?

Mr. QUIGLEY. A water project?

Mr. ROGERS. A water project. In other words, do you feel that the language of the act which gives you the power, the one that you read this morning, which gives you the power to deal with the pollution of interstate streams?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I don't think I so read the language I read this morning in regard to Congressman Chenoweth's question on the comprehensive program and surveys. I think the only authority we would have, what you are suggesting as a possibility, might come under our demonstration research projects. I can see where this could be done.

Mr. ROGERS. I am not speaking really of research; I am appreciative of that part. I am trying to focus on this situation and find out where the jurisdiction of each department begins and stops insofar as the water is concerned. That is why I am appreciative of your outlining the powers you have claimed under the Water Pollution Act. What I have in mind is this. Whether or not there is any anticipation on the part of HEW, or any of its divisions, of entering into the construction of water projects under the guise of treating an interstate stream in order to avoid or prevent pollution.

Mr. QUIGLEY. Mr. Chairman, I think the only thing I would say in response to that where we would likely be involved in constructionand I think this would be very indirectly-is in connection with the 1961 amendment to the act which directed us to cooperate and to work with the Corps of Engineers in their designing of Federal dams. Also to work with the Bureau of Reclamation or any other Federal agency that is designing a project. They would consult with us and we would work with them on the advantages or feasibility or practicability of designing whatever dam is going to be built. The object is that in addition to meeting the basic needs, its basic needs for navigation or irrigation, there would be explored the possibility and desirability of designing the dam so that it would have storage capacity intended to be used for streamflow regulation, to abate pollution. The

pollution problems which grow worse, say in July and August, in the dry season, could be abated or would be lessened by the use of some of this excess water stored in the dam.

Mr. ROGERS. You are anticipating me, because that was to be my next question, as to your powers with regard to design.

Mr. SAYLOR. If the gentleman would yield, Mr. Quigley.

The rights which you have just enumerated then come under section 2(b) of the bill as amended. Is that correct?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes. That is the one I was referring to.

Mr. SAYLOR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ROGERS. With regard to the design, Mr. Quigley, the position of HEW is that you were more or less instructed, or requested by the Congress, that in the construction of future water projects you be consulted in an advisory capacity with regard to the approval of the project as designed insofar as water pollution might be concerned In other words, that you be consulted as experts on the question of water pollution so that if the dam design or water project could be changed to where it would give more effective application to prevention of water pollution, that this should be done, or it should be simply a recommendation.

Mr. QUIGLEY. I think the instruction of the Congress was to the Corps of Engineers, Bureau of Reclamation, and ourselves, that in any Federal program, that this element in addition to all of the other basic elements be considered. So that when the recommendation is forthcoming from the Corps of Engineers, they are recommending this particular dam on this particular river, has this value for navigation, it has this value for flood control purposes, that it has this possible value for power purposes, and in addition this much of the cost should be allocated to water pollution control.

Mr. ROGERS. You are anticipating me every time.

Mr. QUIGLEY. I am sorry.

Mr. ROGERS. That is all right, I am glad you are. Obviously what is in the minds of HEW is that this can be used and possibly will be used as one of the nonreimbursables insofar as the construction of the project is concerned.

Mr. QUIGLEY. This would be in addition to whatever others there would be, a nonreimbursable item.

Mr. ROGERS. But the position of HEW is not, in your opinion, such that you would have veto power over a project. Let us assume that the Bureau of Reclamation submitted a plan to you and you said you have to make certain changes in this in order to make it work for prevention of water pollution. This will cost an additional $3 million but we are making this recommendation.

The Bureau of Reclamation says, Mr. Secretary, we are not going to do that because we don't think you know what you are talking about. Your recourse would be to bring that matter to the attention of the Congress, but you could not veto the project and hold it up. Mr. QUIGLEY. I think the act is pretty clear on that.

Reading from it, it says the need for and the value of storage for this purpose shall be determined by these agencies, and by these agencies I think the act is talking about the Corps of Engineers and the Bureau of Reclamation, with the advice of the Secretary, and that is our Secretary of HEW, and his views on these matters shall be set

forth in any report or presentation to the Congress. So while there has not been to my knowledge any area of disagreement so far, I think Congress recognized that such agreement was a possibility. Where it occurs, I think the basic decision is to be made by the agency responsible for the project, the Corps of Engineers, the Bureau of Reclamation, the Federal Power Commission, or whatever it would be. If they do not adopt our recommendation on this additional matter, and they don't have to, they are required in reporting to the Congress that in addition we had the following recommendation from the Departmentof Health, Education, and Welfare. Here is the Secretary's report in justification for including it, and I am assuming they would say here is our report and justification for not including it.

Mr. ROGERS. Turning to another phase of this situation, how have you treated these water problems in the past? Have you treated them on an item-by-item basis, or have you treated them on a basin basis as is anticipated in this measure that is before us now?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Both. Perhaps in even more ways than two. On the grants for construction, this is an item that is largely handled by the individual States. On the enforcement proceeding, this is a matter which is largely on a case-by-case basis. Under the comprehensive program section of the act, we have been proceeding as best we can in cooperation with the States and the other Federal agencies to do a river survey or a river basin survey.

Some of our surveys might not be as complete or as neat or fall into one of our planned programs, but in the limited time we have been working on the act, with the amount of funds and personnel that we have, we have proceeded to do river basin surveys. We have fallen short of the mark, I am sure, but this is the direction in which we are moving.

Mr. ROGERS. I yield to the gentleman from Pennsylvania.

Mr. SAYLOR. Mr. Quigley, those surveys that you have made so far, have any of them been on the 17 basins that you have referred to, or have they been on the minor basins, the 272 minor basins you have referred to?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Some on both. I would say in a general sort of way out of the 17 we are "involved," in perhaps 7 of the 17. Our involvement may be more or less and our involvement involves rather recent. So while we are now involved, for example, in a comprehensive study of the Ohio River, it is only at the beginning and we are a long, long way from making a comprehensive survey of the Ohio.

Mr. SAYLOR. Mr. Secretary, in view of the fact that you have agreed to furnish for the committee your list of 17 basins and the 272 minor basins, could you attach to that list those basins in which you are doing the work and a short summary of the work that you are doing in each one?

Mr. QUIGLEY. We can and we will.

Mr. SAYLOR. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that this be made a part of the record, together with the basin reports which the Secretary will furnish.

Mr. ROGERS. Without objection, it is so ordered.

(The data to be submitted follow :)

RÉSUMÉ OF PRODUCTS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF COMPREHENSIVE WATER POLLUTION CONTROL PROGRAMS

Projects for the development of comprehensive water pollution control programs in accordance with section 2 of the Federal Water Pollution Control Act have been developed in the following areas:

Arkansas-Red River Basins

Chesapeake Bay-Susquehanna River Basins

Columbia River Basin

Great Lakes-Illinois River Basin

Delaware Estuary

Ohio River Basin

Southeastern River Basin

Comprehensive water pollution control programs will be developed for each of these basins, taking into full consideration the effects of reservoirs and other changes in the natural stream condition as well as the effect of the discharge of wastes from various sources.

The full evaluation of complex interrelated data is essential if the water quality necessary to the economic development is to be obtained. Each basin presents special problems due to difference in geographical location, water uses, stream dynamics, and waste loadings. A brief explanation of the various projects follows:

ARKANSAS-RED RIVER BASINS

The intensive investigations in these river basins were begun in 1958 and completed in 1963. The final report, now undergoing interagency review, identifies the sources of salt pollution in the basin which are interfering with the proper uses of water and recommend possible corrective measures which can serve as a guide to State and Federal programs. At present, the Army Corps of Engineers is using the data in pilot studies of methods of controlling the discharge from major mineral springs in the area.

The successful control of the salt discharges affecting between 20 and 30 million acre-feet of water per year will result in the quality improvement of waters in the 302,000-square-mile area presently inhabited by over 9 million people.

Continuing activities will include monitoring to determine the effectiveness of control measures and assistance to State and Federal agencies working on this problem.

CHESAPEAKE BAY-SUSQUEHANNA RIVER BASINS

This project area includes all drainage to the Chesapeake Bay, an area with diverse industry and a population of nearly 10 million people. Because of the natural resources, the area provides one of the Nation's most attractive playgrounds and the growth of the eastern seaboard metropolitan area has caused the public to emphasize the need for water quality control to safeguard this recreational resource.

Our present efforts are being concentrated upon the development of a comprehensive program which would assure the maximum development and growth in the Susquehanna River Basin. In fiscal year 1965, work will be started on the bay itself and its minor estuaries.

COLUMBIA RIVER BASIN

This project, which includes the coastal drainage as well as the Columbia River itself, is primarily oriented to the development of a preventive program. The water resources of this area are generally of good quality although pollution has occurred in certain areas. Since the water resources are used widely for power production, fisheries, irrigation, recreation, and navigation, there is an acute public awareness of their significance to the economic development of the area and a desire to keep them as clean as possible to preserve these uses. This project was begun in 1961 and has proceeded in close cooperation with the State and Federal agencies in the area. Studies are proceeding in several of the 14 subbasin areas at the present time. As these are completed they are related to each other and an integrated water pollution program that can be utilized by the responsible agencies will be formulated. This intensive phase of the project is scheduled to be completed in fiscal year 1967.

GREAT LAKES-ILLINOIS RIVER BASIN

This project was begun in 1961 with the objective of studying water pollution problems in the Great Lakes, one of the world's greatest fresh water resources, and the Illinois River Basin. Much concern has been aroused by the deterioration of water quality in this 152,000-square-mile area with its population of more than 26 million people. Included in the study area are some of the Nation's great metropolitan and industrial areas such as Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, and Milwaukee.

Information and data developed by this project were provided and formed the basis of recommendations to the Department of Justice, at its request, concerning the diversion of water from Lake Michigan by the city of Chicago, Ill. As a result of this study, the U.S. Supreme Court has been provided with 17 separate volumes of findings and recommendations for consideration and oral testimony has been given by the project director.

This project will continue to identify sources of pollution, evaluate their effect on water quality, and recommend measures for the control of pollution in the study area.

DELAWARE ESTUARY

This project was begun in 1962 at the request of municipal and State agencies when it was determined that data was lacking on the response of the estuary area to the pollution loads placed upon it and that this information was essential to the design of efficient pollution control facilities.

Efforts to date have resulted in the development of a mathematical model which will be extremely useful in the prediction of the response of the estuary to organic pollution loads. The project is continuing to test and improve this procedure and to collect the scientific data needed.

OHIO RIVER BASIN

Water pollution in the Ohio River Basin has been a matter of concern for years. This basin constitutes the industrial heartland of the Nation and its waters are used widely by municipalities and industries. The rivers form excellent arteries of transportation, and the coal deposits provide the sources of power and raw materials for a great chemical industry. The mountains and streams provide a potential recreation area for the metropolitan areas in the basin and in the eastern half of the country.

This project began in 1963 and is now in the process of assessing the magnitude of the problem. This effort will be followed by the formulation of a program for the abatement and control of pollution. In addition to the problems occasioned by the discharge of municipal and industrial wastes are the problems created by mine drainage which is not only the greatet single pollution problem but constitutes the greatest unknown with respect to satisfactory and economical means for control and abatement. This acid pollution affects thousands of miles of streams in several States.

The problem to be resolved through a careful examination of the present situation together with a forecast of probable changes is that of providing a water quality which will meet use requirements in such a manner as to permit a continued upgrading of economic, public health, and recreational opportunities within the region.

SOUTHEASTERN RIVER BASINS

While the quality of water in the southeastern rivers is generally good, the increasing industrialization of the area with the concurrent growth in population centers, increased use of pesticides and other toxic chemicals has created water pollution problems.

This project began in fiscal year 1964 and has as its objective the collection of data necessary to the development of a pollution control program which can be utilized by State and Federal agencies to safeguard the quality of water essential to the economic development of the area. Studies are presently underway in the Apalachicola-Chattahoochee-Flint River Basins, the most densely populated in the area, and will be extended to the other areas as the project progresses.