Now I want to compliment both of you on the factual data that is set out in these statements. Now the first thing I would like to know: What is the total amount that is set up in the budget for R. & D.? What is the total amount? Mr. KELLEHER. For R. & D. for this year. The CHAIRMAN. $1 billion and what? I found it here and I lost it. (Chorus of "$1.329 billion.") General TRUDEAU. $1.329 billion. Mr. KELLEHER. $1.329 billion. Mr. KELLEHER. Right. The CHAIRMAN. Now, that, you say, is 13 percent over fiscal 1962. General TRUDEAU (addressing aide.) Slide 1, please. The CHAIRMAN. I can't see it. I need that glass that you were talking about, General. That is right. General TRUDEAU. Thirteen percent, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Thirteen-percent increase. Mr. RIVERS. Thirty-five The CHAIRMAN. No. Now, in the Secretary's statement he pointed out that there were four areas that you are concentrating on. Where is his statement? Mr. KELLEHER. Tab "D," Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. That is correct, is it not? There are four systems: The NIKE-ZEUS, the MAULER-and what other systems? General TRUDEAU. PERSHING-ADVENT. The CHAIRMAN. PERSHING and the ADVENT, is that correct? Mr. KELLEHER. Right. The CHAIRMAN. And that is using 40 percent of your total budget. General TRUDEAU. Is that your statement? Secretary HINMAN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Is that correct, Mr. Secretary? The CHAIRMAN. That is correct. General, I want to compliment you on all these things that you are turning out. It is fantastic. General TRUDEAU. Thank you, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You are making wonderful improvement. I am happy to note that the budget is sufficient to permit this work to continue. Mr. Arends, any questions? Mr. ARENDS. Yes, just a few questions, of the General, if I might. It shows up there: Minus 3, on the amount of available funds, percent of change, for the NIKE-ZEUS. Could you expand on that just a little bit? I see only two minuses and all the rest are plus, and in this one particular it is minus 3 up there. General TRUDEAU. Well, these funds here will permit the same degree of progress in research and development we have been making. We are getting toward advanced development now and the actual research will start tapering off. Mr. ARENDS. Yes. General TRUDEAU. As a matter of fact, these funds that you see here include advance work on [deleted] developments that are going to make a very great improvement in ZEUS in the present system [deleted]. Mr. ARENDS. General, I want to ask you a question. I have asked other witnesses and I am going to ask you this question. Your statement: "Has that been cleared by the Secretary of Defense?" General TRUDEAU. I would have no knowledge, sir. This has been submitted to higher authority in the Army, and has come back cleared. Mr. ARENDS. Well, you don't have to comment. But I am becoming more and more convinced that too many decisions that are being made in the military today are being made in the State Department. It is beginning to really bother me. So I am asking this question repeatedly. And I think I have some foundation for making that statement. What do you talk about when you say [deleted.] Are you talking about an [off the record]. What is the difference? General TRUDEAU. I am talking about a missile. I am talking about, let's say, an advanced ZEUS, to be specific, that [off the record]. Mr. ARENDS. I see. And you referred to-you don't refer to it then as the ZEUS. You just say it is an [off the record]. General TRUDEAU. [Discussion off the record.] Mr. ARENDS. But it is a ZEUS? General TRUDEAU. It can be a ZEUS or it can be a NIKE with another name. ZEUS can do it with modifications. Mr. ARENDS. ZEUS can do it. General, can you tell me a little bit about what Russia is supposed to have in this particular field? General TRUDEAU. Well, I can state this, that there is very serious concern in the minds of many of us Mr. ARENDS. That I know. General TRUDEAU (continuing). About the rate of progress we believe that they are making. (Discussion off the record.) Personally, I would give them credit for being far advanced in this field (discussion off the record). And this is what causes so many of us concern, because we can see each side with the sword, and the side that gets the shield first has got a tremendous advantage, without discussing the relative vulnerability of the shield. Mr. ARENDS. I know you hear so many rumors and so many suggestions. Let me ask you another question now. What would testingresuming nuclear testing, what effect would that have, as far as you are concerned, in research and development? Would that be a desirable thing? General TRUDEAU. It would give us greatly added assurance in many respects. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. ARENDS. I think General TRUDEAU. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. ARENDS. I think a question like this has been asked of every witness of the Defense Department so far, and each and every one, I think, with the exception of the Secretary-of whom I didn't ask the question, "Militarily speaking, are you in favor of resuming tests?" And I am disturbed when I read in the paper that there is a possibility we will not move ahead on nuclear testing. And apparently it is the collective thinking in the military that we ought to do this for the welfare of the future. General TRUDEAU. From a military standpoint it is (off the record). I like to attribute to people good intentions in their opposition to this, but to me if their intentions are good then their conclusions are utterly unrealistic. Mr. ARENDS. Well, that is right. And this pressure is building up back home. I heard some place yesterday, or the other day, of a questionnaire that had gone out, and it came in almost 50-50 on the question of whether we should do this or whether we shouldn't. General TRUDEAU. Well, you got the "leftists" and the Casper Milquetoasts and all the rest of these people, including a few who are certainly prodding them in the hopes that we should not resume testing. Mr. ARENDS. I don't know what we are spending $50 billion for for defense, if we are not going to utilize every advantage that we possibly can gain by doing these things. Otherwise we are just wasting it and we are not really sincere in what we are trying to do. And this really concerns me. I am glad to see General TRUDEAU. It is certainly tying one hand behind our back. |