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livestock. Now the Secretary is buying that surplus up so as not to wreck the domestic market.

This textile mill will use synthetic fibers at a time when we are at tremendous cost trying to protect cotton from synthetics. Your agency got $80,000 from this area redevelopment program; you didn't have any part in either one of those activities, did you?

Mr. WILLIAMS. That is correct, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. WHITTEN. What did you do for the $80,000?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Chairman, there have been many proposals made by local organizations, some rural area development committees, some from cities, towns, and so forth, with respect to the possible use of ARA grants or loans for natural resources development.

When such applications have come in, in many instances we have been requested by ARA to make an examination, a preliminary examination of that proposal to see whether or not it is generally sound and should be given some further consideration by ARA as an organization.

This has been the principal use of this kind of money. It is used on a time-spent basis. In other words, it is not used unless we are actually working on a project proposal or a program of ARA in which they have asked for our assistance.

Mr. WHITTEN. Do you have a separate group that is established for this work?

Mr. D. A. WILLIAMS. No, sir.

Mr. WHITTEN. Does this go into a common pool for the payment of your general operation?

Mr. D. A. WILLIAMS. This goes into a common pool, doesn't it, Mr. Dorny?

Mr. DORNY. Yes.

Mr. D. A. WILLIAMS. Actually what we do, Mr. Chairman, is that if an application comes to our attention from a given section of the country, we will take our closest capable engineer and assign him out there for a day or a week or whatever it is to make the examination and appraise all of it.

The only exception to that, Mr. Chairman, is that we do have a special assistant that helps, one man, who helps with some of the rural area development committee activities, and he has charged some of his travel to ARA funds, appraising some of the overall economic development plans in the different States.

Mr. WHITTEN. You might describe for the record the number of requests that you have had and the number of projects in which you have participated, if you will.

(The information requested follows:)

The $80,000 of ARA funds made available to the Soil Conservation Service for the 1964 fiscal year are being used to review project proposals and plans submitted for technical consideration; to assist in developing project proposals; and to make field studies as to the feasibility of some project proposals. The Soil Conservation Service has not developed any specific ARA projects and does not furnish services for the installation of such projects. Data on number of plans reviewed is not available in the Washington office. In view of the time element involved it was not practicable to request this information from the various State offices of SCS that provided plan review assistance.

ASSISTANCE TO PROGRAMS OF AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL

DEVELOPMENT

Mr. WHITTEN. You have $430,300 set up next year from the Agency for International Development for training services and technical assistance. This is the Agency I referred to a moment ago.

I had an inquiry recently from one of my constituents. He had read in the newspaper that we had an agency here that might help finance him to go to South or Central America and go into the livestock business. He wrote my office and my office called the AID group. They sent us bulletins, and, lo and behold, when we read it, it said that those interested in investment abroad might receive financial aid from AID. I don't believe the bulletin has a number, but it is issued as an official publication of that Agency-it is addressed to businessmen, from the Agency for International Development. The subject is: "Aids to Business, Overseas Investment."

In the contents there is a foreword "Investment surveys, dollar loans, local currency loans, investment guarantees"-address: ÁID Regional Office, Washington, and U.S. AID Missions.

The contents continue:

The Development Bank and other intermediate credit institutions to which AID had authorized U.S. dollar loans and guarantees; specific risk investment guarantee program; countries and coverages; and the U.S. Department of Commerce, investment services.

It is apparent that, if you are interested in going abroad to invest money, AID will pay you up to 50 percent of your expenses. If you go in business, you can expect to add that on what you may owe. If you don't you can expect that you will have 50 percent of your vacation paid for. Then they will provide dollar loans and guarantees, and several banks will help you to go in business.

The records show that under the law we don't limit the import of cattle grown under those conditions. May I say that I am sure this applies to many other commodities.

On Sunday it was announced that we have so many cattle and meat coming in that the Secretary is trying to buy them with section 32 money and divert them to school lunches and other fine domestic purposes.

You haven't been doing any of that, have you, for any of that $430,300!

Mr. D. A. WILLIAMS. No, sir. I would like to tell you in a little bit of detail the activity that we have engaged in. The answer to your question is "No," but may I tell you of some of our activities.

Of the $430,300 that you referred to, $108,300 is estimated as the amount to be spent within the United States this next year. That would be spent almost exclusively on the training of foreign nationals who are here studying and being trained in soil and water conservation work in our country. They come here for periods of weeks or months and are assigned to work in the field with our fieldmen at the ground level on how to make soil surveys, how to use conservation practices, and how they are applied to the land.

Mr. Chairman, I don't have the exact figure with me. We can put it in the record. But somewhere between 300 and 400 of these foreign nationals per year are trained by our Service through an assignment by the Agency for International Development.

(The indicated information follows:)

ASSISTANCE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS

During the 1963 fiscal year the Soil Conservation Service provided assistance to 375 individual trainees from 63 countries, as shown in the following table:

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One hundred and eighty of these were members of a group or team that visited one or more SCS field locations. The remaining 195 were on individual training programs varying in length from a few days to several months. These trainees were assigned to 39 States, 5 cartographic units, 3 engineering and watershed planning units, 5 SCS training centers, the Soil Mechanics Laboratory, the information unit at Milwaukee, the Beltsville office, and the Washington office. Generally favorable, and often generous, praise was received for the training given and the work experiences provided.

The 1963 activities show substantial increases over 1962. The outlook for 1964 is for about the same number as 1963.

Mr. D. A. WILLIAMS. We did receive this fiscal year an allocation of $80,000. We estimate $81,600 will be available for this in 1965. There are some $17,000 in the fiscal year 1965 available to us, estimated to be available for technical consultation. In that regard, Mr. Chairman, may I point out an example?

This past year, at the request of the Government of Turkey, I personally spent several weeks in that country as a consultant to the Government on their land use and water conservation programs, and their governmental organization with respect to handling their conservation work.

May I say that in Turkey, Mr. Chairman, the Turkish Government has established a conservation program patterned in many respects after that in the United States, and has attempted to pattern a technical organization, something after our Soil Conservation Service. In this regard I was asked to consult with the Government.

In addition to that sort of work, the remainder of some $332,000 of this estimated transfer to the Soil Conservation Service from AID is in connection with some contracts, one that we have with AID for providing some soil and water conservation assistance in the development of a pilot watershed program in Tunisia. That is being done in a manner to train some of the Tunisian hydrologists and economists and others.

The experiences we have had in the United States in developing watershed programs take into account the conservation of the soil and water for the benefit of the people.

The second contract we have is with Algeria. In Algeria we have, I believe it is nine people, who are over there to work with the Government of Algeria in helping them to initiate a very early beginning of soil conservation work on their land. This involves some of the most elemental conservation practices. These people are located in the field and representatives of the Algerian Government are working with our men trying to learn these practices and learn how to supervise some labor. Some Algerian labor is being used on a kind of a work camp proposition to do conservation work on the land. Our part in this is purely consultation. It is a sort of thing I think that will help some of these countries not only to understand conservation but I would be hopeful, Mr. Chairman, that in the process they will learn something of our American democracy, as I am sure these nations that come over here to work with our men in the field are learning.

Mr. WHITTEN. If they will furnish credit and guarantees to produce over here maybe we can stay even. It is one thing to assist in the development of our neighbors around the world. It is another thing to assist in putting them into a competitive business, producing farm commodities for export. There is quite a distinction between

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helping them to be self-sufficient within their borders and putting them into competitive situations with our own producers.

It is in this latter area that frequently we find our folks going far afield. You probably will recall this even though you had no connection with it. Some years ago it developed that we had about 714 specialists in foreign countries who wanted to produce largely competitive agricultural commodities, to a great degree financed by Americans, and handled in such a way as to meet the international financial interests of most of these Americans.

I think that we managed to put a stop to much of that at that time. Reports in recent weeks lead me to believe that the practice has grown up again. Now our own Internal Revenue Service is trying its best to collect just a little bit in taxes from these Americans who form foreign corporations, producing commodities in competition with our own, and sell in competition with our producers who stay at home. Our committee is making an investgiation of the facts in this matter. I hope we will have something by the time this committee finishes its work.

Again we are not passing judgment on the assistance to foreign countries who are friendly to us and are becoming self-sufficient, but we are making an effort to keep our own financial interests from taking advantage of our Government and our American citizens in the manner that I have described.

TECHNICAL SERVICES TO OTHER AGENCIES

I notice further, Mr. Williams, that you have about $600,000 in technical services and details of personnel to other agencies and departments. What does the $600,000 consist of? What is the expected return that you will have next year?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Dorny, will you comment on that item?

Mr. DORNY. Yes. We get called on, for instance, by the Navy Department, Air Force, and other agencies to provide technical assistance on such work as planning and layout of erosion control practices, drainage systems, et cetera, around airports or other installations to stabilize areas where erosion or flooding is occurring.

Mr. WHITTEN. This amount, then, does not mean an allocation to your agency, but actually a payment to you for services rendered? Mr. DORNY. Yes. These are reimbursements.

Mr. WHITTEN. You do the work first and this is your estimate of what you will receive as payment for services rendered. Mr. DORNY. Yes.

MANPOWER LIMITATIONS

Mr. WHITTEN. What reduction will you have in man-years under this Executive order during the present fiscal year? How many more man-years will you have at the end of this fiscal year than you had budgeted at the start?

Mr. DORNY. On the man-year item?

Mr. WHITTEN. Yes; throughout the agency.

Mr. DORNY. As far as the man-year estimate is concerned, our total figures are being reduced by 734.

The reduction in reimbursable work is 553 man-years. That is made up of some increases plus a 555 man-year reduction in the ACP reimbursable work.

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