Service, and especially Dr. Joseph G. Knapp, Administrator, to consider and conduct such a program. It is understood that such a meeting would be held immediately preceding the National Council of Farmer Cooperatives annual meeting at Seattle, Wash."

Resolution adopted by the Minnesota Association of Cooperatives at annual meeting, October 28, 29, 1963, St. Paul, Minn. :

"RESOLUTION No. 5, FARMER COOPERATIVE SERVICE

"Whereas cooperative marketing, purchasing, and farm business service associations contribute to farmer prosperity; and

"Whereas the development of good principles and practices in cooperative organization and management are essential to strong cooperative growth; and "Whereas the Farmer Cooperative Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture has contributed effectively to the information available to farmers for organizing and managing their cooperatives: Therefore be it

"Resolved, That the Minnesota Association of Cooperatives commend the Farmer Cooperative Service for the assistances which have been provided, and we ask the Minnesota representatives in the Congress and the U.S. Secretary of Agriculture to further strengthen this cooperative service activity."

Resolution adopted by the members of Florida Council of Farmer Cooperatives in annual meeting on October 22, 1963:

"Resolved, That the Florida Council of Farmer Cooperatives commends the Farmer Cooperative Service Division, U.S. Department of Agriculture, for its assistance to farmer cooperatives, and asks the Florida representation in the Congress, and the U.S. Secretary of Agriculture, Orville Freeman, to further strengthen this important cooperative service activity."

"We greatly appreciate the fact that you could come to the meeting of the New Mexico Cooperative Council. I feel that your presentation has laid the groundwork for some of the work we want to do this year in improving the policies and functions of directors of individual cooperatives. I also want to say that ti was kind of you to attend the Dairy Farmers Association meeting. This group needs a great deal of help, and I feel that you have made a contribution to this organization that may be felt throughout the dairy industry here * * *. W. Y. Fowler, secretary, New Mexico Cooperative Council, University Park, N. Mex., February 26, 1964.

"Thank you for your letter of March 25, relative to issuing safety-checking booklets containing a résumé of information contained in your technical service bulletins in regard to safe handling practices on livestock. The reports, for example, 447, issued January 1961, covering loss and damage in handling and transporting hogs, has become more or less a bible, and that and the others covering species of livestock, in my opinion, are the most valuable contributions to the farmers and the industries that have been published. I like the copy of the 'Safety-Checking of Livestock Trucking,' as well as handling of facilities, and if you will have 25 copies of each sent to me, I will have them placed with the personnel at our key yards."-Ray C. Burke, general livestock agent, Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Railroad Co., Omaha, Nebr., March 29, 1963.

"We have reviewed and appreciate immensely the fine job you have done in your compilation of General Report 114 issued in August 1963. Would you please send us 50 additional copies of this publication entitled 'Impact of Dairy Cooperatives on Federal Order Milk Markets." We would like each of our field employees, who are scattered throughout the State of Wisconsin and adjoining States, to have a copy for their reference."-Wm. C. Eckles, general manager, Pure Milk Products Cooperative, Fond du Lac, Wis., October 23, 1963.

"We are pleased to receive in this morning's mail three copies of the final report of your analysis of the operations of Mid-West Producers' Creameries, Inc. *** It so happens we have had a committee appointed to discuss the matter of marketing fees and dues, and this report is received at a very appropriate time as it will afford the committee considerable information. We wish to thank you and the Farmer Cooperative Service for making this study and rendering this report as we are sure that it will be of value in improving our operations."-E. J. Ryger, general manager, Mid-West Producers Creameries, Inc., South Bend, Ind., June 14, 1963.

""Twenty Years' Progress of Au Sable Products Association' report is the most comprehensive, clear, and informative report I have ever had the pleasure of reading. It is written in a language that the timberman can understand. The working methods and policies of cooperatives should be very clear after

having read your report.”—Thomas W. Hetz, Tri-State Pulpwood Cooperative Association, Westernport, Md., May 8, 1963.

"I would like to take this opportunity to compliment two of your staff members, Mr. Dan McVey and Mr. Bob Byrne, and thank them for the assistance which they rendered us recently in connection with a research project. Mr. McVey, through his intimate knowledge with the entire soybean processing industry, was able to provide me with current data on the number, size, and location of crushing plants which was not available from any other source-including the industry's bluebook. When another agency failed to provide some transfer costs between selected origins and destinations as promised, Mr. Byrne, on a very short notice, obtained these rates for us. Such action on the part of your staff reflects not only their competence in their respective position but a fine spirit of cooperation with other agencies. I am sure that you are proud to have men like these associated with your organization.”—T. Everett Nichols, Jr., extension associate professor, North Carolina State College, Raleigh, N.C., November 5, 1963.

"We truly appreciated the very fine talk on mergers which you presented at our 18th annual meeting. Your clear-cut, concise presentation has been very well accepted as I have had several requests for followup on this matter. It is a real pleasure to have a person like you who can be called upon to do this type of thing * * *."-Gordon H. Busboom, executive secretary, Nebraska Cooperative Council, Lincoln, Nebr., February 13, 1964.

"I have just read your recently published booklet entitled 'Increasing Marketing Strength of Farmers,' Information 43, by J. Kenneth Samuels. This should be required reading of all farm cooperative directors. To this end, I would appreciate your sending us 11 copies for distribution to our board of directors."-L. D. Jones, general manager, Washington Canners, Vancouver, Wash., February 28, 1964.

EMPLOYMENT CEILING

Mr. NATCHER. What are your end-of-year employment targets for June 30, 1964, and June 30, 1965, Dr. Knapp?

Mr. WALKER. Under the direct appropriations, 93 for both years and 4 additional positions supported by these allotments for ARA and AID, making a total of 97 for each year.

Mr. NATCHER. Mr. Horan ?

SIZE OF FARMS

Mr. HORAN. I am quoting now from some studies made in a cooperative report and I am looking at some tables in an interim publication put out by Economic Research. At the moment I am looking at one table which would show the gross sales, the investment capital needed, the total acres needed, the cropland acres needed, the labor required, both by the operator in hired and customs labor and the units of the major enterprise by commodities on several farms chosen at random more or less around the United States, showing what is required in those categories to return the operator $2,500 net. I am looking at the capital investment which runs from $162,307 for beef production in south-central Oklahoma, requiring a minimum of less than 3,000 hours in all categories of labor down to the least one listed here, which would be a dairy ranch in the southern South Carolina Piedmont district where the investment is $26,183 and the labor in all categories runs around 1,600 hours.

Now these increases as you go up to earn $3,500 net, $4,500 net, and $5,500 net—you are getting, in the $5,500 net category, according to these studies-and these are weighted studies of course, because no two ranches would be the same-in $5,500 net the least investment would be in southeastern Minnesota dairy farm, $16,000-no, wait a minute, I am wrong. The same place, South Carolina Piedmont,

30-087-64-pt. 2-27

$35,998, in investment capital, to $353,147 in beef production in southcentral Oklahoma. And the total hours are only 5,000 even there. Obviously these figures-the more one studies them in a lot of these cases these people would be better off to divest themselves of farming and buy gift-edged bonds, because at 4, 5, or 6 percent interest they would make this much money without any effort and they probably, if they were working in a factory, they would make that much money with much less outlay of labor. But we are committed and rightly so to the matter of keeping the family on the farm. We do a lot of talking about the family-size farm and yet we see technologies increase and we see production techniques developed by our own research quite often and we see machinery increase in value but inefficiency also, and in price and yet in some cases we restrict the amount of acreage by law or by regulation and in some cases we restrict it by penalties and attempt to raise the price by reducing the production, the competition at the marketplace, or that is our desire.

And in some of these smaller ones, as we reduce the acreage that the farmer is allowed to operate on or is able to operate on, we find him unable to take advantage of some of the technologies and the machinery necessary to put that into effect.

It has been suggested that perhaps by cooperation in given areas where the proximity of the operations are close enough that perhaps their cooperation might be utilized. Has that been one of your studies?

Mr. KNAPP. Yes, Mr. Horan, I am deeply interested in your analysis of this general situation. We recognize the seriousness of these changes and we are aware of them. We study them. We feel, on the basis of our relationship with farmers in working on studies of their cooperatives, that the cooperative device, the cooperative method of organization, is imperative in many cases if we are going to help the farmer continue, if we are going to preserve the family farm base of our American agriculture. And we are making studies in various places. We have in your area a very interesting one. We are making a study of Western Farmers, which operates in Washington and Oregon, and which is an integrated marketing and purchasing organization. I have been familiar with that organization myself for 25 or more years, so I have seen the changes.

A couple of years ago the management of that organization, the directors, because of these changes and the difficulty of meeting them, requested our assistance in making a general survey. I went out and spent a week with the board of directors and management staff developing plans for this research and we are now carrying it on.

WORK UNDER AID FUNDS

Mr. WHITTEN. Mr. Knapp, the record shows that the U.S. Government is furnishing funds for American business interests to go to South and Central America and elsewhere, to go into cattle and other types of farm businesses. Our Government will pay half of the cost of the trip down there, guarantee against risks and certain other losses and in appropriate cases make loans available to set up the business. Then we are letting those cattle and other products come back into this country. Now, I read that the Secretary is buying up some of the surplus meat to protect prices. They haven't made your service available to American farmers in South and Central America, have they?

Mr. KNAPP. Not to American farmers, no. I would like to say that we had a request, Mr. Chairman, last year in connection with AID to consider how we might help the Brazilian Government and the cooperatives of Brazil strengthen their agricultural cooperatives.

Mr. WHITTEN. Was that a request by our people in AID or was it a request of the Brazilian Government?

Mr. KNAPP. I wouldn't know fully just how the request originated, but the need for the help was quite obvious on the basis of the conditions down there and they probably were in touch with our AID officers and considered with them whether AID assistance might be rendered. But this is the way we reacted to that proposal: We wanted to see whether it was practical, whether, if we did make available members of our staff to go down there, whether it would be useful to them in building cooperatives which, in the long term, would be organizations which would strengthen their economy and would build good trade relations with us. So we sent Dr. Abrahamsen, who is here with us today, down to explore the nature of this request and the nature of this need. And so he was down with a few others from the Department who studied the agricultural situation in Brazil last October and November. But we have done nothing other than look at that situation. We have not followed that up with any manpower.

Mr. WHITTEN. Was that in connection with helping the cooperatives engaged in the production of farm commodities, livestock, or something which might be exported in competition with the United States, or was that a more general request?

Mr. KNAPP. It would be more along this line, Mr. Chairman: They were interested in how their Federal and State Governments could help cooperatives by developing research, educational, and service programs such as ours. And they were interested in having people from FCS with experience meet with people down there to suggest how they might draw on our experience and eventually develop a program for Brazil of their own which would be comparable to that which we have. Mr. WHITTEN. That is all.

Mr. HORAN?

Mr. HORAN. To get back to this western group you were talking about

WESTERN COOPERATIVE STUDY

Mr. KNAPP. Pardon me, sir. Mr. Horan, when I was out there a year ago last July, I was almost surprised to see the extent to which the farms had increased in size. There is a smaller number of members in the organization, but they are closing ranks and building an efficient organization, preserving for the individual farm units a system, or endeavoring to do so, that will still maintain independent operators on those farms, so that farming will not get away from farmers. Mr. HORAN. What are some of the techniques they are using? Mr. KNAPP. Well, they are using truck facilities, bulk hauling to a much greater extent. They are using more automatic and mechanized methods in manufacturing and handling feed, fertilizer, and other supplies and products. They are also improving their business management and accounting systems. And this study is going to examine just how this organization has preserved itself as a cooperative and has helped maintain the efficiency of farming and of agriculture for the State, and the state of the farmers themselves. It

has to do both with the procurement of supplies they need, the production supplies, and the marketing of their products. The report on this study will be available within this year and it will help throw light on the kind of general problem that you presented. I would be very glad to look at the material that you have put in the record, and give you a little more information for the record.

Mr. HORAN. We are supposed to have additional reports on this. It has been very slow coming. This is as of December 1962. Dr. Nathan Koffsky assured me when they came up on the 10th that he would have additional reports on this. I believe they will be here the 10th. I find them to be quite illuminating.

Frankly, anyone that has $353,147 invested in a beef ranch in central Oklahoma would be better off even having that in a savings and loan bank or some place where it would be drawing interest, because that is what is required, according to these studies, to give him a net income of $5,500 a year.

Mr. KNAPP. Mr. Horan, I would like to say here, with these changes going on in livestock marketing, in the feed industry, and other developments of that kind, we must get in and study these operations from the standpoint of helping farmers build the kind of organizations through which they can preserve some of their independence. And we think that some of these studies that we are now engaged in are the answer, or at least the best answer that we can find.

SIZE OF TOBACCO FARMS

Mr. HORAN. Do you know what the average size of our tobaccoproducing farms is today?

Mr. KNAPP. Well, the tobacco crop is generally an allotted part of a farm enterprise. Most farmers which produce tobacco also grow other crops. I wouldn't know how to measure the size of a tobacco farm.

Mr. HORAN. Perhaps you could answer this in the record after you look it up.

Mr. KNAPP. All right.

Mr. HORAN. My attention was directed particularly at tobacco farming because we have, through farm research, developed some technology that could be helpful to the tobacco farmers but it is very questionable if the size of his productive acreage would justify his investment as an individual in that type of improvement.

I do know that all agricultural industry is going through a revolution and that we hope the Farmers Home Administration, if it doesn't get clear away from agriculture and get into the socialized field too far, that it will assist in making adjustments that will enable the so-called small farmer, who is no longer a small farmer, as these figures indicate, if he wants to stay on an economic unit, that he will be assisted in that direction if his industry and character and ability as a farmer indicate that he is the one that should be saved. If he is not, he ought to be retrained. Not everybody can make a successful farmer, of course.

(The requested information follows:)

Recent studies of the Economic Research Service show that tobacco acreage in Kentucky and North Carolina represents but a small percentage of the land on farms where tobacco is grown. However, as tobacco is an intensively pro