formance of certain advanced research and development projects. It was also decided that the new Agency initially would be given full responsibility for research and development of the antiballistic missile missile and for outer-space projects.

"Since the decision to establish the Advanced Research Projects Agency was made subsequent to submission by the military departments of their fiscal year 1959 budget requests, these requests included amounts for antimissile missile and outer-space programs. Consequently, in the late stages of formulating the Department of Defense budget, the pending service requests were adjusted to combine the amounts to be requested for antimissile programs and outer-space programs in a single request for the Advanced Research Projects Agency. Therefore, the fiscal year 1959 request of $340 million for the Agency includes $64.1 million which had been initially included in the Army budget request for antimissile missile programs, and $174.3 million which had been initially included in the Air Force budget request for antimissile missile and outer-space programs."

EARTH SATELLITE PROGRAM

Mr. MAHON. In the "weapons of the future" category we have discussed the antiballistic-missile missile. Are you in the earth satellite program? I wish to join with other members in telling you how happy I was that you launched our first satellite. I want to say that I had so much confidence I was not surprised.

I might say at the same time I have had no confidence whatever in this Vanguard thing. I hope eventually they get one up, but we won't worry about that at the moment.

Do you have money in here for military satellites? Are you in that field, or who is in that field?

Secretary BRUCKER. Maybe I had better take that one.

We got the green light to go ahead with the launching of two Jupiter C-propelled earth satellites on or about November 10, 1957. That is, that is when the green light was given to us. We were given a funding in the magnitude of $4 million for that job.

We proceeded, and you know with what result, as to the first. We are proceeding with respect to the second. It will be now within the period of the next couple of months.

In the meantime, we have asked the Department of Defense, even though ARPA is not functioning actively, to permit us to go ahead with some more sophisticated satellites. That is pending at the present time, and was a matter of discussion with the Director of Guided Missiles, who was substituting for the ARPA Director, as recently as Monday and Tuesday of this week. Yesterday was the last that I knew about it.

So the matter is now at the stage where we have been given the green light, of course with the money to fire the second one, but the others which are to follow are on the verge one way or the other, and I don't know just when we shall hear.

Mr. MAHON. Our first satellite was not a military vehicle, although of course it would naturally give some information and

I know

experience which would be helpful in a military sense. that the Air Force is in that picture. Are you in that picture other than to the extent you have discussed?

Secretary BRUCKER. We are in it to the extent that the matter is under intense study by the Army to do whatever we are called upon to do in the out yonder. We feel, however, that these are so near at hand, and we are so ready to do the job, that we ought to take the initiative to suggest it to the Department of Defense. We have taken that initiative.

As to the balance of the program or programs which we have, and what we think we can do, we are studying and will be willing to present them to ARPA and the Department of Defense for whatever the need is.

Mr. FLOOD. Will that include antisatellite satellites?
Secretary BRUCKER. Off the record.

Mr. MAHON. Last year when the Navy came up through Admiral Bennett and Dr. Hagen to get $34 million in additional funds for the Vanguard satellite program, I said to the witness, in July, or early August, that I had informed the Army could already have launched an earth satellite had the Army been given the assignment in the first place.

Of course, one cannot say with finality what could have been done, but, generally speaking, could the Army, in the opinion of the Secretary of the Army and the Chief of Staff, have launched a satellite by the time the Soviet Union launched one or before, had sufficiently important steps been taken, say, in the calendar year 1956 or 1957 ?

Secretary BRUCKER. Mr. Chairman, you must know my reluctance to reflect upon any person. I do not think you want any culpability or anything of that kind, because there isn't any. Mr. MAHON. No.

Secretary BRUCKER. But the Army did in 1956, in the month of September, put up the same Jupiter-C rocket launching system an instrument payload which went over 600 miles high and 3,300 miles in range.

Then of course following that we put up last August another one where the nose cone came through intact, and it was fished out, as you know. That was likewise a Jupiter-C.

So over the period of the last 2 years, and in all candor to you and without any attempt to reflect on any other service or any other person, I can say to you that the Army ballistic missile team at Huntsville has had the ability to operate the Jupiter-C and to launch a satellite of the type that was launched last Friday night.

Mr. MAHON. Of course you have not had the capability and do not now have the capability of launching a satellite of the size and weight of the Soviet Union No. II Sputnik.

Secretary BRUCKER. That is correct, not with the Jupiter-C. Mr. MAHON. That is all you have had to do the launching with, except, of course, the Jupiter, which is not yet very operational.

Secretary BRUCKER. That is right. completely operational at the moment.

Let's put it this way: Not

Mr. FLOOD. What do you need? Engine? Thrust? Fuel? What are you missing?

Secretary BRUCKER. That is it. Thrust, propulsion. We have the technique, the know-how, and the guidance, but we need the additional propulsion.

Mr. FLOOD. When are you going to put one up which weighs a half ton?

Secretary BRUCKER. That is a matter for the future, and I just don't know the answer to that as to time, our ability to do it, or the jurisdiction to get into it.

Mr. MAHON. Do any of these satellites which you have been thinking about, any of these proposed satellites of the future which you have discussed, include weights of much greater magnitude than the present satellite?

Secretary BRUCKER. Oh, yes, very much greater.
Mr. MAHON. How great does that weight go?
(Discussion off the record.)

Secretary BRUCKER. Theirs was eleven-hundred-some-odd pounds. I don't want to comment except to say with respect to theirs that Dr. von Braun-I give you this secondhand-remarked to me the night we were waiting for our own to come in that it is surprising the amount of weight in the Russian bardware in Sputnik II. I hope you will get the story from him of the ability that we have to put up something much larger than Explorer, and the degree to which our sophistication and miniaturization could accomplish the purpose in that field.33

In the hearings before the Preparedness Investigating Subcommittee of the Senate Armed Services Committee, "Inquiry Into Satellite and Missile Programs", there was some discussion of the organization for outer space projects on November 27, 1957:

Mr. WEISL. Mr. Secretary, on November 15 I believe you announced the creation of a post for a manager of antimissile and military space-project developments. Have you made that appointment?

Secretary MCELROY. No; we have not made the appointment. I wish that I had had time to settle into that one and do it because we would like to do it as quickly as we can. But the recruitment has not yet been accomplished. We want a very good man for the job.

Mr. WEISL. What is the purpose of that post?

Secretary MCELROY. The purpose is an immediate one: to pull under a single manager-this is the first time this has been done in the Defense Department-actual operating units for the research and development work that goes on in the antimissile missile field and in the satellite and space applications field.

Mr. WEISL. What power will that manager or director have?
Secretary MCELROY. He would have complete responsibility.
Mr. WEISL. In the same way that Mr. Holaday has it?

Secretary MCELROY. We have a different point of view on this man. We feel that these programs have not gone so far but that we can pull them together without any slowing down of the de

Ibid., pp. 389-391.

velopment of those programs under a single director, a single manager. We think that there is sufficient complexity in both of these fields that the research and development assignment could very well be handled outside of the services as part of the Department of Defense, and then as you come close to the time when there may be an operation of this weapon, whatever it may be, it would be turned over to one of the services for it to deploy and

use.

It is not thought that this agency would actually serve as a deploying agency.

Mr. WEISL. Do you not think, Mr. Secretary, and I am merely exploring, Mr. Secretary, you understand that, of course, do you not think that creating a post of a missile director on the one hand and then an antimissile director on the other hand might just add a little more complexity and more confusion? Why cannot the director of the missile program also be the director of the antimissile program?

Secretary MCELROY. We considered that. We reached a conclusion, which we think is a right one, that the man who is head of the missile program in this country has got about as much on his shoulders as any one man should have. We think Mr. Holaday is loaded with as much responsibility as he should have in order to give stimulation and coordination to the missile program. For that reason, we felt that what we call advanced weapons-which is our term for that advanced-weapons agency, if that happens to turn out to be the term that we use-should not be put also upon Mr. Holaday, but that we should choose someone else who would then organize in a different way from the way Mr. Holaday operates to make his job effective and result ful.

Mr. WEISL. Would not the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force have their own antimissile missiles?

Secretary McELROY. They would not work on antimissiles under this concept. The work that they have done in the past would be pulled together and centralized within the single-manager agency that I am describing to you.

Mr. WEISL. Would that single manager have authority over the antimissile activities of the people in the Army and in the Air Force and in the Navy, or would it be, as you said, the same as Holaday who would not have that direct authority over those people?

Secretary MCELROY. He would have authority. Again it might very well be through the Secretary of Defense, but we have discussed this thoroughly with all of the departments of the Defense Department, all of the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force, and it is fully agreed when this agency that I am discussing takes form, it will take over all activities that any of the services are conducting in these areas. Up until then, in order not to lose any momentum, each of the agencies that has been working in these areas will continue their programs.

Mr. WEISL. This man will also be a director of the satellite program, the same man.

Secretary MCELROY. He would have satellite applications? Mr. WEISL. Is not the satellite very closely interrelated with the ballistic missile? Is not the satellite a projection, instead of

projecting a warhead to a target, you project a satellite in orbit? Does not that really belong to the fellow that has got charge of missiles?

Secretary MCELROY. Yes. The kind of satellite applications that we are talking about are not the type which are in the IGY. That would continue with Mr. Holaday, in our thinking.

We are talking about the highly technical missile applications which may go quite far, and again I think we had better talk

on that later.

Mr. WEISL. That is what I am talking about. In other words, is not any kind of satellite another type of object that is being launched in orbit into outer space? In other words, instead of launching a warhead to a target, you launch a satellite in orbit into outer space.

Now, does that not belong to the fellow that has charge of missiles? I do not want to belabor the point.

Secretary MCELROY. In our judgment, it did not. They do have in common the requirement that there be a thrust into outer space. That much they do have, but that is not the end of the road by any means on the antimissile missile, nor is it on the various satellite applications.

Senator JOHNSON. Should the organization for future development of outer space, in your opinion, be located in the Pentagon or be established in some civilian agency like the Atomic Energy Commission?

Mr. ROCKEFELLER. Well, because of its intimate relation to the military aspects of our national security, it would seem to me that the Secretary of Defense should have prime responsibility in making the decision where it should be placed so that first responsibility will be to our national security.

Senator JOHNSON. Now, are you saying it should be under him or not? You ought to bear in mind it includes such nonmilitary things as control of the weather. Can we expect the Defense Establishment fully to develop peaceful uses of outer space when their budgets are already low and they are trying to get adequate weapon development and other things. We have the same problem here that we had when we set up the Atomic Energy Commission. The Congress and the country at that time decided that although there was a pretty direct relationship between defense and atomic energy work, that there ought to be a separate and independent civilian agency. I wonder if you do not think the same thing should happen as far as outer space is concerned?

Mr. ROCKEFELLER. We did not want to preclude it in the discussions, but we did not feel that we had enough information to warrant a decision in that respect, and that the man who would be in the key position to know what should be done, in consultation with the President, would be the Secretary of Defense.

Senator JOHNSON. So you would pass that one for the moment ?34

Inquiry into satellite and missile programs. Hearings before the Preparedness Investi gating Subcommittee of the Senate Armed Services Committee, 85th Cong., 1st and 2d sess., pt. I, November 27, 1957, pp. 217-219; January 10, 1958, pp. 1055–1056.