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I am happy to have this, because all day I have been wondering if there was such a job description, and we have been told there wasn't.

Dr. HENDERSON. That sheet has been handed to every delegate and made available to the press in the pressroom.

Senator HUMPHREY. Were you present at these hearings this morning?

Dr. HENDERSON. Yes, sir; I have been present all day.

Senator HUMPHREY. Do you recall the question that was asked about a job description, the full nature of the responsibilities of this Assistant to the Secretary? Do you recall we asked the particulars, the details as to the responsibility of this Special Assistant Secretary to the Secretary?

Dr. HENDERSON. I remember that question being asked; yes.

Senator HUMPHREY. You recall we were told that the description was to be found in the organization plan under section 3?

Dr. HENDERSON. Yes.

Senator HUMPHREY. Do you recall we were told that was it, and there had been as yet no real outline of the detailed responsibilities? Would you say “yes” or “no?”

Dr. HENDERSON. Yes.

Senator HUMPHREY. Do I understand that there was a sheet passed out to the delegates to the conference?

Dr. HENDERSON. That sheet was passed out to all the delegates, by the credentials committee as they registered, of the American Medical Association.

Senator HUMPHREY. Who prepared this sheet?
Dr. HENDERSON. It was prepared by our organization.
Senator HUMPHREY. By your organization?
Dr. HENDERSON. Yes; I think so.

Senator HUMPHREY. Was the sheet prepared—I point it out for the record, “Position description, Special Assistant to the Secretary of Health and Medical Affairs, Department of Health, Education and Welfare”—was this job description prepared solely, entirely, and privately by the American Medical Association, or was it prepared in consultation with representatives of the Government?

Dr. MURRAY. That was prepared after a conference with the committee, known as the Rockefeller Committee. We had a conference with that committee at my invitation about 2 weeks or 10 days ago, and all this plan was gone over and thoroughly discussed, and it was agreed to, and this worksheet or description that you have before you was prepared after that conference.

Senator HUMPHREY. Thank you very much.

Dr. CLINE. It was read to us at that conference and agreed to, and it was mimeographed afterward in sufficient numbers for us to pass to our members of the delegation.

Senator HUMPHREY. I want to ask further, the Rockefeller you refer to is Mr. Nelson Rockefeller, recently appointed by the President?

Dr. MURRAY. Mr. Rockefeller, Dr. Fleming, and Mr. Eisenhower.

Senator HUMPHREY. Were there any representatives of the Federal Security Agency present at the time the conference was held of the American Medical Association ?

Dr. MURRAY. Mrs. Hobby.

Senator HUMPHREY. It is very interesting to me that at this late hour-according to my watch it is 20 minutes to 5 on this day, March 16, 1953—we find that there was a job description not prepared entirely by the American Medical Association, but prepared after consultation with representatives of the President and of the Federal Security Agency—and I make a note of this, Mr. Chairman, as one member of this committee and my responsibility as United States Senator—I asked whether or not there was any detailed job description tentatively prepared. I would like

The CHAIRMAN. Put it in the record.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. I suggest we have this read into the record. Other members would like to know about this.

The CHAIRMAN. I recall you have had many interruptions.

Senator HUMPHREY. I ask the chairman, may I have unanimous consent to read this?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Senator HUMPHREY (reading):
The Special Assistant to the Secretary will be the top staff policy adviser to
the Secretary with respect to health and medical matters.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other copies here?
Dr. HENDERSON. No.

Senator HUMPHREY. It seems we should have copies of this prepared.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. This appears to be an important matter, but I would like to call this to the attention of the committee. From Dr. Murray's statement, this was not a document gotten out by the Federal Security Administration. It was not gotten out by the Administration or by Mrs. Hobby. This is a document that was formulated by the American Medical Association, and I would think, with all due respect to the Senator, that is not so important as far as the committee is concerned. You asked Mrs. Hobby if she had a worksheet. She did not have a worksheet; neither did Mr. Dodge, the Director of the Budget; so therefore, I don't see why it is so important. It is perfectly all right for the American Medical Association to have a worksheet for their convention. But when you suggest this is something that pertains to what Mrs. Hobby knows about or the Administration, it is absolutely unfounded.

Senator HUMPHREY. I appreciate the gentleman's opinion, but now I should like to get back to facts.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. You must admit that the American Medical Association is admitting they are the ones who got it up, and they said Mrs. Hobby did not draft it.

The CHAIRMAN. Will the Senator yield ?
Senator HUMPHREY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. I don't understand, maybe due to my lack of intelligence or familiarity, but is this something wicked they did? In view of the questions I thought here there must be something terribly wrong with the thing

Senator HUMPHREY. I say the chairman's chivalry is surpassed only by his seniority.

The CHAIRMAN. I join Mr. Riehlman. I don't see why you are intimating

Senator HUMPHREY. You say what you wish--

The CHAIRMAN. I want to be accurate. Something was wrong about Mrs. Hobby's testimony, her attitude!

Senator HUMPHREY. I have the greatest respect for Mrs. Hobby, and I am looking forward to a delightful visit.

I think it is well to clarify certain inferences and assertions.

The CHAIRMAN. Someone suggested Mrs. Hobby couldn't write a job sheet. She couldn't write a job sheet until she got the job. You . have been criticizing Mrs. Hobby

Senator HUMPHREY. I have accepted this plan in good faith. I am not looking under beds to see if there is some skulduggery going on. I want to find out how this sheet was prepared. It is a perfectly legitimate area of interrogation. We were told there was no sheet or description.

The CHAIRMAN. By whom?
Senator HUMPHREY. Mr. Dodge.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Dodge had nothing to do with this sheet.

Senator HUMPHREY. I am not trying to put anybody on the spot. I want to ask this question. Am I informed by your prior statement that the American Medical Association was in consultation with our executive branch of the Government in preparing this position description?

The CHAIRMAN. And if so, name them.

Dr. MURRAY. I don't know from what department they came or who they were representative of exactly.

Senator HUMPHREY. Let me ask the question more concisely. Did representatives of the American Medical Association consult with gentlemen or representatives, ladies or gentlemen, appointed by the President in this administration?

Dr. MURRAY. I don't know by whom they were appointed.
Senator HUMPHREY. Did you consult with Nelson Rockefeller?
Dr. MURRAY. We did.
Senator HUMPHREY. Did you consult with Mr. Fleming?
Dr. MURRAY. We did.
Senator HUMPHREY. Did you consult with Milton Eisenhower?
Dr. MURRAY. He was not present.
Senator HUMPHREY. Mrs. Hobby?

Dr. MURRAY. Mrs. Hobby was in the room, but did not perform as part of the committee.

Senator HUMPHREY. What part of the room was she in? Was Mrs. Hobby present at the meeting?

Dr. MURRAY. Correct.
The CHAIRMAN. Anything you say will be used against you.
Dr. MURRAY. Thank you. I realize that fully.
Senator HUMPHREY. It shall not be used to injure you in any way.

Was the job description which I have, which was presented to me by Dr. Henderson, I believe, or Dr. Cline, was this prepared as a result of the conferences?

Dr. MURRAY. To some extent. It is really an enlargement, or rather, section 3 here is just a paraphrase of what is in there. You need not be too much disturbed about the content of that sheet.

Senator HUMPHREY. I am not disturbed about the sheet.
Dr. MURRAY. It is in section 3 here, all of the points.

Senator HUMPHREY. I am not disturbed. I want to ask some questions about the sheet.

The CHAIRMAN. Read it into the record.

Senator HUMPHREY. Was this sheet prepared and ultimately mimeographed, as a result of the discussions and the dleiberations which took place between the representatives of the American Medical Association and the aforementioned representatives of the Government, ”yes” or “no?"

Dr. MURRAY. You are partly correct only.
Senator HUMPHREY. What part is partly correct?

Dr. MURRAY. The sheet was prepared, as I understand, as I remember it, it was read to us at that conference.

Senator HUMPHREY. By whom?
Dr. MURRAY. Mr. Rockefeller.

Senator HUMPHREY. So this sheet was read to your organization at the conference?

Dr. MURRAY. Somewhat in substance. I don't know if it was more absolute detail than it is there, but somewhat in substance, and it was later given to us, sent to the American Medical Association in order that we could distribute it to our house of delegates.

Senator HUMPHREY. In other words, it is a sheet like this in substance; the material herein was read to you by Nelson Rockefeller; is that correct?

Dr. MURRAY. I don't know if it was exactly.
Senator HUMPHREY. In substance?
Dr. MURRAY. Yes; in substance, I should say it was. .

Senator HUMPHREY. And then later on it was prepared and given to you for distribution at the American Medical Association meeting?

Dr. MURRAY. That is right.

Senator HUMPHREY. In other words, it was mimeographed and prepared not by the American Medical Association

Dr. MURRAY. Well, I thought it was.

Senator HUMPHREY. I thought you said it was given to you for distribution?

Dr. MURRAY. But it was distributed by the American Medical Association last Saturday.

Senator HUMPHREY. Who prepared the original stencil ?
Dr. MURRAY. I don't know.
Senator HUMPHREY. Did the American Medical Association pre-
Dr. MURRAY. No, sir.

Senator HUMPHREY. What was the other party to the conference other than the American Medical Association ?

Dr. MURRAY. Nobody,

Senator HUMPHREY. That is rather hard to follow. Did Mr. Rockefeller or a member of his staff or a representative of the Government prepare the material which is herein printed in what is termed "Position Description"?

Dr. MURRAY. Yes; I think so.

Senator HUMPHREY. I wanted to get this perfectly clear because we have been told there was no analysis made.

Dr. CLINE. This is not a detailed analysis. I don't think that constitutes a detailed job analysis.

Mr. Brown of Ohio. I think we ought to alternate in this filibuster. I should like to alternate between the House and the Senate.

pare it?

The CHAIRMAN. Well, if the Senator will yield. Otherwise, I would like to have the Senator get this statement in at this point.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. I would like to have it read and then yield.

Mr. HUMPHREY. Apparently I have taken too much time of the committee. I only say this

The CHAIRMAN. Not at all.

Senator HUMPHREY (continuing). That I had asked the question early this morning as to whether or not there was any more information other than that provided in this description under section 3. I was told that there was no detailed information. I submit, sir, that when this statement is read to any reasonable person it will be found that it includes all kinds of detailed information and job description, citing, for example, that this special assistant will represent the Government of the United States at international conferences, will represent the Secretary in the matter of organization with the American Hospital Association, the American Medical Association.

There is a series of detailed responsibilities listed in this statement, and I submit that that is contrary to the testimony that was brought before this committee this morning.

I have no more to say.

The CHAIRMAN. You have a perfect right, of course, to that conclusion; and at this poit, if you are willing, we will include it in the record.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. I would like to read it into the record for the benefit of my other colleagues on the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. As soon as Mr. Brown finishes-
Mr. HOLIFIELD. I will wait until Mr. Brown finishes.
The CHAIRMAN. You will read it in at this point.
Mr. HOLIFIELD. That will be all right.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. Go ahead then.

Mr. Brown. Mr. Chairman, I have not had the opportunity to see the particular paper that has been referred to, but I do have some questions I would like to ask.

I first want to go back, if I may, to some of these questions of Mr. Dworshak, in which he referred to doctors and the American Medical Association. I would like to ask these gentlemen if in their long life they have ever heard any criticism of attorneys or lawyers.

Dr. HENDERSON. I did not understand.

Mr. Brown. I would like to ask the gentleman whether or not in his long life and experience he has ever heard any criticism expressed by anyone of attorneys or lawyers.

Dr. HENDERSON. Plenty.

Mr. Brown. Did any of your patients ever complain to you that some attorney or some lawyer may have taken advantage of some widow or some orphan child ?

Dr. HENDERSON. Frequently.

Mr. Brown. Do you think that because that may have happened that you should condemn all the attorneys and lawyers in the country?

Dr. HENDERSON. Certainly not.

Mr. Brown. Is it your opinion that the average attorney—that is, countrywide—is a pretty decent man after all ?

Dr. HENDERSON. Yes, sir.

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