Mr. BROWN of Ohio. I want to agree with the gentleman fully, but the only difference is that the gentlemen were intelligent enough to go to the people that had written the plan and to ask for a description of it. We didn't do that. We should have asked Mr. Rockefeller to come up here. They are not responsible for that.

Senator HUMPHREY. Congressman, the only difference is that the Government representatives, in the person of Mr. Rockefeller and Mr. Fleming, went to the AMA with the job description and didn't come here. That is the fact.

Mr. BROWN Of Ohio. No; they did not go to the AMA as I understood it. They went to them.

Dr. HENDERSON. I wouldn't say that.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. Mr. Chairman, may I be recognized to read the statement?

The CHAIRMAN. All right. Before you read that, see if Mr. Dodge did say this morning that he lacked knowledge about his job description. Isn't it true that Mr. Finan, a holdover, sat by him and should have advised him if he knew about it?

Senator HUMPHREY. Oh, Mr. Chairman, I am positively sure that Mr. Dodge didn't know about this. No one in this committee has a greater respect for Mr. Dodge. All I am saying is that here again we have an instance where one arm of the Government is doing something and doesn't tell the other arm what it is doing, and here you have a situation where the Rockefeller Commission is telling the American Medical Association what it ought to hear-and I agree that it was right, but at the same time, they didn't get around to tell the Director of the Budget; they didn't get around to tell Mrs. Hobby, the Administrator of the Federal Security Agency, and-if you will pardon me for being so impolite as to suggest-they didn't even tell the two committees of the House and Senate that have to pass on this proposition what the job description was and whether you like it or not, sir, it is faulty administration, and it appears to me that it is a bit of a snub to this committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; and if that is so, isn't Mr. Finan a holdover? Didn't he consult with the Rockefeller people, and didn't he know all about it?

Senator HUMPHREY. I don't know. I can't read his mind.

The CHAIRMAN. We will have him back and see whether he did or not. He sat on the right side of Mr. Dodge as his adviser.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. I would like to have him called to the stand, and I would also like Mrs. Hobby called to the stand and ask her if she knows anything about this.

The CHAIRMAN. That is why Mrs. Hobby has to get rid of those holdovers.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. All right, if I may be recognized

The CHAIRMAN. We have one more witness now.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. I hope the representatives of the American Medical Association feel as clean as Mr. Brown has attempted to make them and as I feel that they are. I absolutely hold nothing against the gentlemen, which I wish to say before I read this statement. [Reading:]

Position description, special assistant to the Secretary (Health and Medical Affairs), Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

That is the title. [Reading:]

The special assistant to the Secretary will be top staff policy adviser to the Secretary with respect to health and medical matters. He will have responsibility for reviewing the health and medical programs throughout the agency and, where necessary, making recommendations for improvement. On matters of legislative policy where health and medical policies are involved, he will be responsible for making recommendations to the Secretary. This will include review of legislative reports involving health and medical care matters, proposed testimony before congressional committees relating to health and medical-care matters, and other related policy statements such as annual reports, et cetera. As chief staff policy adviser in the health and medical field, the special assistant to the Secretary will represent the Secretary on top-level interdepartmental committees concerned with health and medical-care matters, such as the Health Resources Advisory Committee to the President. He will have responsibility for liaison on behalf of the Secretary with important nongovernmental groups, such as the American Medical Association, the American Dental Association, the American Hospital Association, the American Public Health Association, and the Association of State and Territorial Health Officers. Such liaison will not, of course, supplant liaison by the constituents of the Department but would be broadly representative of the total interests of the Department in the health field. He will, when appropriate, represent the Secretary in making speeches before various groups interested in health and medical problems faced by the Federal Government and particularly by the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

The special assistant to the Secretary will, from time to time, represent the Secretary at various international meetings, such as being a delegate to the World Health Assembly of the World Health Organization, and other major international assignments. Such representation will not, of course, supplant appropriate representation from the Public Health Service, the Children's Bureau, and other constituents of the Department. The new Department of Health, Education, and Welfare will continue to have major and numerous international responsibilities in the field of health as a positive arm of United States foreign policy.

As directed by the Secretary, the special assistant to the Secretary will see that related health and medical problems arising in any of the various constituents having health or medical-care programs are properly coordinated. These constituents are: The Public Health Service, the Social Security Administration (including the Children's Bureau), the Food and Drug Administration, the Office of Vocational Rehabilitation and St. Elizabeths Hospital. Coordination between related activities of these constituents is a matter of very substantial importance.

In short, the special assistant to the Secretary will be the top staff policy adviser to the Secretary on health and medical matters, will represent the Secretary in important external relationships of the Department with national and international bodies concerned with health and medical matters, and will, as needed, coordinate related health and medical programs within the Department.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Holifield, I do not like to say this, but we must get along. We have one more witness. If there are only a few of them

Mr. HOLIFIELD. Yes. There are just a few. As the Chairman knows, I am very brief in my questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Oh, yes. You are very brief.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. I want to say I see nothing wrong with this script. The only criticism I have as a member of the committee, gentlemen, is that it contains more information about the work and the duties and the responsibilities of the Assistant Secretary than we have been able to obtain with a whole day's committee interrogation of the witnesses before us. If there has been an honest error made-if this was not submitted to the committee earlier-we come to the closing part of the day and this information which was thought important enough to pass out to your members, no doubt for the purpose of

explaining to them the position of the special assistant and to obtain their endorsement of the resolution which was passed at your delegation meeting-it was not thought important enough, for one reason. or another, to be presented to the members of this committee.

As a member of this committee I think there has been a mistake made. I think that someone has been less than frank with this. committee.

Now I would like to ask you a question.

The CHAIRMAN. Before you go any further let me put on the record this statement

Mr. HOLIFIELD. I refuse to yield at this time.

The CHAIRMAN. You have had your 5 minutes, and more.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. No; I haven't had 5 minutes.

The CHAIRMAN. You certainly have, but go ahead.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. I would certainly like to ask a question of either one of the three gentlemen. That is, if this gentleman who will be appointed to this job will have the endorsement of the American Medical Association?

Dr. HENDERSON. We do not know who is going to be appointed. Mr. HOLIFIELD. Have you been asked to prepare a panel for the consideration of the Secretary?

Dr. HENDERSON. I didn't quite understand that.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. Have you been asked to prepare a list of names for consideration?

Dr. HENDERSON. We have not.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. Do you intend to do that?

Dr. HENDERSON. If we are asked, we will.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. Do you believe this gentleman will represent the position of the American Medical Association?

Dr. HENDERSON. Not necessarily the American Medical Association as such, but the medical profession. What we are interested in is the health of the Nation. And whether that man happens to be a member of our organization or not does not make so much difference if he is the right kind of a man.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. By "the right kind of a man" you mean a man who will put the American Medical Association position before the Secretary. Is that what you mean?

Dr. HENDERSON. No. We do not mean that. I mean who will handle the problems properly-the problems of the health of the nation, and medical service.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. You do identify the American Medical Association's objectives with the general welfare of the nation, do you not? Dr. HENDERSON. Absolutely.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. You do not believe that any of the things the American Medical Association stands for would be antagonistic to the welfare of the nation, do you?

Dr. HENDERSON. I do not think so.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. Then it is safe to say he will represent the American Medical Association for the Secretary?

Dr. HENDERSON. Not necessarily.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. You think he might be against some of your positions?

Dr. HENDERSON. It is quite possible.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know of any reason why your association should not have the right of petition? Do you know why you should not be heard as well as anybody else?

Dr. HENDERSON. We have the right of petition.

Dr. CLINE. We exercised it actively in the last few years.

Dr. HENDERSON. I think we have demonstrated we are citizens and we are interested in the welfare of the nation.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. I certainly agree with the gentleman that the American Medical Association has been very active in the last 4 years, and I hope they will be in the next 4 years.

Dr. HENDERSON. We intend to be.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. And I believe the special assistant will be able to do the job for you and to screen, as is said here, all health programs and everything else that is brought before the Secretary.

Mr. BROWN. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Just a moment. On the record I wish to put this statement which I wanted to before, but yielded to Mr. Holifield. It is that as I understand it, members of the Rockefeller Commission or Committee are in the position of advisers to the President and they do not, under any circumstances, testify before congressional committees either of the Senate or the House. Had we asked them to come up, which we did not, they would have refused to come. That is my understanding. I may be entirely in error.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. I have no desire to have them before us.

The CHAIRMAN. I assume also that they thought they had the right, and the association thought they had the right, to inquire as to what the proposed activities were.

Dr. MURRAY. Certainly.

Mr. BROWN. Will the gentleman yield?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. BROWN. Do you think it would correct this entire thing, and eliminate all of this controversy, if we simply asked them to withdraw this reorganization plan and provide in the new one that this assistant secretary had to be a witch doctor?

Mr. HOLIFIELD. I think it is entirely appropriate that he be a medicine man-a medicine man, not a witch doctor.

The CHAIRMAN. Let us go on.

Mr. DAWSON of Illinois. Will the gentleman yield?

Since the Rockefeller group was appointed to bring about a reorganization that is vital to the President, do you not think they ought to discuss it with the heads of the Departments and with an organization within that Department?

The CHAIRMAN. I think if they are advisers to the President, Mr. Truman having established the precedent of not letting Mr. Steelman obey a subpena by a committee, they are perhaps justified in going ahead and making the recommendation to the President. I think President Eisenhower will, in accordance with the law, authorize the witness, or direct the witness to come up, instead of doing as Mr. Truman did in protecting Communists and the GSA, in refusing to let Mr. Steelman come up.

Mr. DAWSON of Illinois. May I ask the witness a question?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. DAWSON of Illinois. How much was the amount of the lobby raised by the association to fight plan 27?

Dr. CLINE. Are you asking Dr. Henderson or me?

Mr. BROWN of Ohio. I think it is about half as much as Oscar Ewing spent.

Dr. CLINE. The maximum expenditure ever made by the American Medical Association for the maintenance of its Washington office of information was $288,000, which involves the employment of about 20 employees. That is the maximum amount which could be technically, as most organizations

Mr. DAWSON of Illinois. Well, now

Dr. CLINE. Just a moment. I have not finished my answer-as most organizations report any lobbying expense. The American Medical Association in its national educational campaign, which was aimed at two purposes: No. 1, to advise the people of this country concerning the dangers and disadvantages of socialized medicine; and, No. 2, the committee to which you have referred heretofore, spent something over $4,000,000. That report as lobbying expense is the very reason that the administration at that time was extremely antagonistic to the American Medical Association, and we were afraid that if we did not report every single peny we spent in our national advértising campaign as lobbying expense, that we might be held to account for it.

The CHAIRMAN. How does that compare with the $150,000 that the CIO just gave to Mr. Truman's monument down there?

Mr. DAWSON of Illinois. $250,000.

The CHAIRMAN. And $100,000 which the steelworkers gave, and the contributions of the CIO in the last political campaign. Do you know?

Dr. CLINE. I have no idea. We have not given money to any political campaign.

Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Mr. Chairman, may I say that the American Medical Association has a very comforting way of minding their own business. I want to compliment you on that.

Dr. CLINE. Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. The next witness, please, and thank you ever so much.

Dr. CLINE. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you identify yourself, please?

STATEMENT OF ROBERT P. FISCHELIS, ON BEHALF OF THE
AMERICAN PHARMACEUTICAL ASSOCIATION

Mr. FISCHELIS. My name is Robert P. Fischelis. I am the executive secretary of the American Pharmaceutical Association, which has its headquarters in Washington, D. C.

The American Pharmaceutical Association wishes to express its approval of Reorganization Plan No. 1 of 1953, which proposes the creation of a Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, to include the functions of the Federal Security Administrator and the departments within the present Federal Security Agency.

We appeared before the Senate Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments on July 29, 1949, and voiced approval of the