Mr. HERSEY. Is it your brief?

Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. GOODYKOONTZ. Where do you reside?

Mr. JACKSON. I reside in Richmond, Va.

Mr. GOODYKOONTZ. What is your vocation?

Mr. JACKSON. I am a lawyer; I have been practicing law for about 40 years. E. A. BAKER (reading):

"Brief statement of the committee representing the consolidated interests of the negro of the United States, giving the reason why there should be created an industrial commission, to be known as the negro industrial commission, and why Congress of the United States should authorize the appointment of such a commission.

"The negro is a separate and distinct race within the Nation.

"He is a long ways out of touch with the United States Government, although he is a contributing factor to the support of this Government, as is evidenced by the United States census of 1910, which shows that he owned and operated 880,836 farms, valued at $1,083,658,351, in 17 States alone, as follows:

Maryland, 6,370, valued at $12,249,019; Delaware, 922, valued at $2,350,845; Virginia, 48,039, valued at $54,651,043; North Carolina, 64,456, valued at $78,675,830; South Carolina, 96,772, valued at $118,314,985; Georgia, 122,554, valued at $157,870,357; Florida, 14,698, valued at $15,365,896; Kentucky, 11,709, valued at $18,252,353; Tennessee, 38,300, valued at $54,073,706; Alabama, 110,387, valued at $97,261,114; Mississippi, 164,488, valued at $187,401,976; Arkansas, 63,578, valued at $87,119,083; Louisiana, 54,819, valued at $56,472,403; Oklahoma, 13,209, valued at $30,347,738; Texas, 69,816, valued at $111,853,611; District of Columbia, 12, valued at $93,671; West Virginia, 707, valued at $1,304,721. A total of 880,836 farms, valued at $1,083,658,315.

There should be an avenue through which the negro can at all times be in close touch with the Government of the Nation. The creating of this commission would be the creating of a direct wire through which the negro as a race can at all times reach the central point of the Government, that he may keep in close touch therewith.

"The negro has no representative in Congress, neither has he any connection with the Government through which to receive orders to render service to the Government and the Nation. The creating of such a commission would aid, stimulate, and encourage the negro in doing his bit for the support of the Government of the Nation, of which he constitutes at least 12 per cent. It will be clearly shown by the next census that he now numbers 12,000,000.

"There are existing under the laws of the United States large numbers of commissions covering Government activities, perhaps they may run into the hundreds, and upon examination it will be seen that none of these commissions are created to aid the negro as a race, or to help the negro aid the Government in his desire to become an important factor in time of peace or time of war. There is no race of people living under this Government that is not represented in the Government except the negro. The Indian is provided for by the Indian Department or Indian Commission, which not only looks after their welfare, but they are treated as a ward of the Nation, and as such ward the Government spends millions of dollars annually for the support of this race. The negro is not like the Indian, but is a self-sustaining race and contributes to the support of the Government by paying his proportion of the tax, both direct and indirect, during the time of peace; and in the time of war he contributes his pro rata of man power.

"In the European war he contributed more than $200,000,000 to help win the war by purchasing Government bonds and thrift stamps. He also contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Red Cross, and stands ready at all times to answer the call of the Government. He has never produced an assassin to assassinate a President of the United States. He has never resorted to bombs to blow up railroads, bridges, and buildings. He has never produced a traitor to the Government and can at all times be relied upon as a safe ally to the Government.

"The creating of this commission is desired on behalf of the negro of this country for the solution of various problems which affect his race, and especially the economic problems which cut to the core, and can only be healed by the efforts of the negro himself.

"The life of the negro is so completely divorced from all agencies of the Government by reason of his position as a separate race, his relation to the Nation has been misunderstood in several sections of the country. The negro has no representation in the Government, or any of its agencies. For this reason his spirit has many times been misinterpreted and his activities misconstrued.

"As a result of this there has been great unrest throughout the country, and especially in centers largely populated by negroes, most of whom try to adjust themselves to the new conditions and surroundings, brought about by the large migration of negroes from one section of the country to the other, culminating in riots and bitter feelings between the races. The damage incurred by these clashes between the races has cost many times the amount it will take to operate this commission for a number of years. Through the activities of such a commission these clashes can in the future be avoided, and a better understanding can be had between the races, thereby relieving the unrest and unsettled condition now existing in this country.

"The negro question is one among the foremost questions of the day because of its various aspects. It has its economic side, its industrial or labor side, its civic and other phases that could be easily adjusted through this commission. "Upon consideration it is clearly evident that from the executive down through the other departments of the Governments this commission would be of invaluable assistance in handling questions pertaining to the negro. If we understand that part of the League of Nations having reference to Africa and islands of the sea inhabited by negroes, there is no question that this commission would be of great service to the Government in working out questions pertaining to the negro.

"The fact that there are hundreds of negro missionaries sent out and supported by the different negro denominations to do work in Africa and the islands, who make their reports to certain negro agencies, creates an avenue through which the commission could gather information and submit to the Government upon any question pertaining to the negro in which the Government would be concerned. The last-mentioned statement fixes the basis by which the commission would be of invaluable service to the State Department of the United States Government. If the recommendation of the Secretary of the Interior to distribute certain public land to soldiers is approved, this commission could be of service to the Department of the Interior in handling the land that would be set apart for the colored soldiers. The commission could also be of service to the Secretary of the Treasury in handling the thousands of questions which must be confronted by the War Risk Insurance Department in respect to the settlement of claims of the colored soldiers. It could be of invaluable service to the Secretary of Labor in handling the labor situation, which to-day is paramount to all other questions, in which the negro occupies a very conspicuous place.

"The congested conditions shown by reports of accredited agencies in the sections of the country where the negro has migrated under misguided influence, are very deplorable, to say the least. It appears from one of the writers on negro migration that thousands of colored families have left splendid homes with good environments and gone to these congested centers to be crowded into undesirable localities, with the very worst sanitary conditions, which would necessarily play heavily upon the mortality of the heretofore healthy laborer. This commission could aid the Labor Department in regulating this evil.

"We have mentioned quite a number of activities that could be employed by this agency, yet there are hundreds of others that could be mentioned, and there are others that will present themselves from time to time for the attention of this commission.

"We would, therefore, respectfully ask that Congress would pass a bill authorizing the President of the United States to create a negro industrial commission of five members, three of whom are to be members of the Negro race, with headquarters at the seat of government."

Mr. JACKSON. You will notice, Mr. Chairman, that this brief was prepared some time ago, in the latter part of President Wilson's second administration, and we touched on a number of things. Since preparing that brief we have supplemented it with a statement giving a few additional reasons why we think this commission should be provided for.

Mr. HERSEY. Is this the first hearing you have had on this bill?

Mr. JACKSON. We had a hearing before the Committee on Appropriations, which I referred to at the beginning of my remarks, when we found we were before the wrong committee. This is the first hearing we have had since the bill was introduced by Mr. Layton. This statement gives further reasons for the creation of the commission provided for in this bill.

Statistics should be collected and presented to the proper authorities, showing the great need of attention to delinquent negro boys; to make recommendations for school for the correction of these boys and to curb these evil influences.

Attention given to the above subjects would lessen crime, thereby decreasing not only the criminal expense throughout the Nation but reducing the burden of coping with this element of citizens. While we regret to have to acknowledge the presence of this element of citizenship, we feel that it can be greatly reduced by better educational facilities and better community life.

The good influence of an authorized agency, similar to the one which we are seeking to have the Government establish by this bill, would more than offset any expense that might be entailed for the operation of this commission. We are informed that the burdens of the United States courts have gotten so heavy, on account of the increased criminal dockets, that a number of additional judges are asked to be appointed to cope with the situation. While we do not charge this burden entirely to the group which this commission would have to deal with, we realize they contribute their share, which could be greatly reduced.

The negro is on trial before the bar of public opinion without any authorized agents to furnish evidence in his behalf. His crime and bad conduct, when committed overnight, are published the next morning throughout the Nation in large headlines, and in most cases the negro is tried before the bar of public opinion upon this evidence. This commission could find out the true facts in the cases and enable justice to prevail at the bar of public opinion. If the commission could publish to the world the bright side of the picture of the negro, there would be a different verdict rendered in the solution of his problem.

In the Southern States the law provides for separate cars for the accommodation of the two races, with the provision that there should be equal accommodations for both races. We are sorry to state that there are not any equal accommodations. We believe that if there were some one in authority to investigate and report these matters to the proper authorities in the States or the Interstate Commerce Commission, some remedy might be worked out to the satisfaction of all concerned. The colored people contribute largely to the traveling public, from Maine to Mexico, but they are excluded from the privilege of riding in a Pullman car, although they are willing to pay the price. So often the Pullman cars are empty and are being hauled over the roads for miles, yes, hundreds of miles, and there sit a number of colored persons of culture and refinement suffering to occupy the space in these cars. Sometimes they are sick and under the care of a nurse, and yet they can not be accommodated. We believe that

an authorized agent, speaking on behalf of the colored people, might be able to work out plans for the solution of this problem that may be adopted, both by the States, the railroad companies, and accepted by the public.

The colored man is here in this Nation, and it goes without saying that he did not come of his own accord. He was invited and brought at the same time, but he is here and is multiplying by the millions. He should be given room to work out his destiny, and instead of being hindered or obstructed he should be encouraged and helped by the creating of this commission.

That is an addition we made to our brief. I want to say this in reference to what is said there about the curbing of crime, that the courts of the United States are so congested that, according to what I have seen in the newspapers, the Chief Justice has recommended the appointment of nine additional judges. That shows what those of us who practice at the bar in various States know, that certainly since the enactment of the Volstead Act the courts are occupied most of the time in disposing of the criminal instead of the civil dockets. We believe that if these young people had different environment, had some place where they could be sent so the criminal idea might be worked out of them and better ideas worked into them, there would be a change for the better.

In Virginia we have a splendid school at Broadneck, where they cultivate 1,800 acres of land, and that is almost a self-sustaining institution. It is conducted by a colored man who is present at this hearing this morning. In Alabama there is a similar school.

You might say this is a State proposition. But it is both a State and Federal proposition. If you will read the bill, you will find that this proposed commission will deal not only with officers of the Government of the United States but it will deal with the State governments, with the governors, with the corporation commissions, and other similar State bodies in the various States. It will deal with the corporation commissions in the different States having up this question with reference to accommodations for colored people on the railroads, and there will be some one in authority to speak for the colored people to the corporation commissions so that they can work out some plan by which the colored people can travel with more comfort than they do now. As it is at the present time, nobody is looking after that.

The colored man is very easy to please, I admit, and he very seldom goes on a strike. He usually goes on and works as best he can. If we have an authorized agency such as this commission which would be created under the provisions of this bill, then if things were not working right in Mississippi or Louisiana they could take up those questions with some authority. Of course, they are working out all right in Virginia. We get along very nicely with the white folks down there. When Governor Montague was Governor of Virginia everything was all right.

Some writer a few years ago in giving the reasons why the best black people live in Virginia said it was because in the early days the bad black folks were sent into the South to live and the good ones stayed in Virginia. That is why all of the best ones are there now. The bad ones were all sent down into Louisiana to work on the cotton farms.

But coming back to this proposition in regard to the Pullman cars: The black man does not want to push himself along with white folks. We have our different churches. I pass by you on Sunday morning going to your church, and you pass by me going to my church to worship my God according to my liking and in accordance with my views. And we get along pretty well.

But if I want to go, for instance, from New York to Tuskegee I have to sit up all the time. That is what the colored man has to do. It is not the fault of the railroad people, but that is the way it is.

I remember once going down to Savannah, Ga., to address the Southern House of Governors, and I am going to read you a letter of invitation I received to address the Southern House of Governors at Savannah, where I went at my own expense, to discuss the negro question. Major Moulton and I were invited to discuss that question before the governors of the Southern States to give them an understanding as to what was the matter with the negro. After the war some people said the negro was mad about something and those southern governors wanted us to tell them what the trouble was, because we were the representatives of a large body of black people.

I went from Richmond, and I got a sleeper berth in which I traveled, but nobody spoke to me. They only spoke to me when I got ready to go to bed and talked to my God. They seemed to have respect, at least, for God Almighty, even if they did not have any for me.

When I got ready to come back, somebody told me I could not get a sleepingcar berth out of Savannah back to Richmond. I said: "Then I will have to stay here." But, nevertheless, I tried to get a sleeping-car berth back, and finally I did succeed in getting one, through a very high authority.

The point I am trying to make is this: I am complaining to this extent, that there is nobody to speak with authority for the colored people as a whole. I say if we had this authorized agency that we could work out these plans. We would have somebody in authority who could work out some plan by which some arrangement might be made so that the colored man could ride in a sleeping car, if he is willing to pay the price for it, and not ride with the white folks, either. Then, Mr. Chairman, sometimes we have to carry our sick from the North down to the South. We very often find colored people going North. When I come up here on the morning train, leaving Richmond about half past 5 o'clock, the train is packed with colored people going North, and it sometimes looks to me as if I were the only one left.

I remember I had occasion to speak at a meeting of the Southern Commercial Congress in New York during the war, when so many colored people were going north. I said we must inaugurate some plan to discourage the colored people from leaving their homes and going north. I am afraid if many more of them go north from my part of the country it will not be very long before I will not have anything to do. I want them to stay down there with me, instead of going north, away from their homes.

When the colored people go north we find very often that some of those same colored people are brought home with this terrible disease that we call tuberculosis, and we have to carry them home in the railroad trains from away up North down to the South, and they have to sit up in the coaches all the time. Sometimes they have the disease in such a form that they ought not to be in the car. But the colored man goes up there and comes back sick, but he can not get a sleepingcar berth and he has to sit up all the way down there, maybe having this disease in a mild degree when he travels. As it is now, there is no way by which he can be accommodated. But the black people are here and have to be dealt with. We have got to make some arrangement by which the black man can go along like the rest of the people.

We are all human and have only a few days here, at best. You and I may live to be a hundred years old, but we are only here about 25 minutes, measured by eternity. Why not let us get together and make some arrangement so we can get along, so that there will be no trouble between us?

Governor Mann, of Virginia, made a speech once in which he said we did not need any law books in our law libraries, that we did not need but one book, and that was a book containing the Ten Commandments. You do by me as you would have me do unto yourself. Make these provisions for us, so that we may enjoy these things when we can pay for them.

You will find that we behave ourselves as well as anybody else. The black people are not mean. When we read about a colored man committing a crime, we should not judge the whole colored race by that. Somehow or other the colored man is judged by the bad acts of another. Nothing may be troubling me at all, but simply because I am a black man it is taken for granted that I have done something and that I am not worthy of any consideration.

What I am asking you to do to-day is simply to create this commission. I am not attempting to give you any general plans in regard to the functions of the commission, but when the President of the United States shall have appointed these representative men, who understand the colored race, those men will work out these problems.

Let me tell you another thing. Governor Montague lives in Richmond, but he does not know about all the things that are going on in Jackson Ward. That is the name of one of our wards down there. General Grant named it after me. General Grant was not President at that time, but we had some trouble down there, and I wanted that ward laid off so I could get in the city council, and I got General Grant to change the boundary, and he called it Jackson Ward. All the people who live there are black people, so Governor Montague does not know anything about them. We want somebody on this commission who can study the conditions among the colored people; somebody who would come before a committee like this and tell you what the conditions are among the black people, which you do not know and can not know. It is absolutely impossible for you to find out about those conditions yourselves, and nothing is being done about them now. Everybody's business is nobody's business. We want a commission that will speak for the Government of the United States.

I live in the South, and I feel this way about it. If a man does anything so that he is not all right at home, he can not get along abroad. I had something to do with the Jamestown Exposition in 1907. President Roosevelt appointed me as director general of the negro division, and he gave me $100,000 to spend in that division of the exposition. Then when they saw the things there that the colored man had produced they said if this is the production of the colored race, as exhibited at this exposition, we will stand by them.

In taking up this matter of trying to get Congress to provide for this commission, I decided I would do the best I could to get the views of white people in the South in reference to this commission. I wrote letters to representative white men in the South, to governors and mayors of cities all over the South, and I went and saw many of them in person. Finally I received a letter from Governor Dorsey, of Georgia, and that was what took me before the session of the house of southern governors. This was the letter I got from Governor Dorsey:

GILES B. JACKSON,

[Letterhead of executive department, State of Georgia]

Richmond, Va.

DECEMBER 2, 1919.

DEAR SIR: We will hold in Savannah, Ga., some time during the day of December 9, an executive session under the auspieces of southern governors, on relation of the races in the South, and should be glad if circumstances are such that you can be present and participate.

Yours truly,

HUGH M. DORSEY, Governor.

I was present at the conference and participated in the proceedings, and one thing happened there which I do not think will ever happen again. I presided over that conference during the discussion of the Negro question. Major Moulton and several other leaders of the colored race discussed various questions pertaining to the Negro race, and the chairman of the conference said, "Since we are going to discuss the Negro question, we will have Colonel Jackson preside." So I did preside. Before the conference of the Southern House of Governors I read this bill