Mr. TOLAND. He was an employee of yours, was he not? Mr. ROHLEDER. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. Is that a complete and accurate list of all the equipment you had on October 29, 1940, when you were awarded these contracts? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir; that is just the miscellaneous equipment that was purchased at Cramp and in the toolroom. That belonged to Cramp. Mr. TOLAND. That is not yours? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir. Mr. TOLAND. Would you read the note that Mr. Ward signed on hat? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is right, but that is what was charged to me. but it belonged to Cramp on that job. That has no reference to my equipment. Mr. TOLAND. It has no reference to your equipment? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir. Mr. TOLAND. I offer that in evidence. (The list of equipment referred to was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 283," and is filed with the committee.) Mr. TOLAND. Isn't it a fact that the value of the equipment that you had on your books was $1,040? Mr. ROHLEDER. What date is that, Mr. Toland? Mr. TOLAND. December 31, 1940, after you got the contract. Mr. ROHLEDER. Well, that is something I would have to check as to the value on the books. Mr. TOLAND. I show you a trial balance of December 31, 1940, for Charles F. Rohleder, and ask you if that is a true and correct copy of your books according to your best recollection? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is the book value of the equipment at that time; yes, sir; $4,400. (The records referred to were received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 284." and are filed with the committee.) Mr. TOLAND. Those are your records; we took them from your files. It shows $4,400; is that right? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is right. I don't think you could replace my equipment today for fourteen or fifteen thousand dollars. Md. TOLAND. I didn't ask you that. Just answer the question, and if you want to make any explanation later the committee will give you plenty of time. I am trying to show the committee just exactly who you were and what you had when you got these contracts. Mr. ROHLEDER. Right. Mr. TOLAND. When did you first meet Commander Weyerbacher? Mr. ROHLEDER. Out at Lakehurst; I don't know whether that was 1920 or 21. Mr. TOLAND. Were you in intimate association and contact with him during that period of time? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir. Mr. TOLAND. What relationship, if any, existed with him during that period of time and up to and including 1939? How often did you see him? Did you have any business relationship with him? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir; I never saw Commander Weyerbacher from the time he left Lakehurst until he called me when he came into Cramp's. Mr. ROHLEDER. That was in the fall of '39, I think. Mr. TOLAND. What did you say? Mr. ROHLEDER. I believe that was in the fall of '39. Mr. TOLAND. In the fall of '39? Mr. ROHLEDER. Or '38. Mr. TOLAND. What did he say to you? What was the purpose of the call? Mr. ROHLEDER. He told me he was in town to make a survey of Cramp Shipyard. Mr. TOLAND. For whom? Did he say for whom? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir. Mr. TOLAND. He didn't tell you that? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir. He was making a survey of the Cramp shipyard with the idea of opening it up to build commercial vessels. He wanted to know if I would help him as far as making up estimates with reference to the cost of reconditioning that plant. Mr. TOLAND. That was in the fall of 1938? Mr. ROHLEDER. Well, I think it was, Mr. Toland. I haven't very good memory for dates. Mr. TOLAND. When was the next time you saw him after that? Mr. ROHLEDER. I think it was in the early part of October 1940, just 3 or 4 weeks prior to this first contract. Mr. TOLAND. You worked for him in 1939, didn't you? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is right, but I thought you meant after that time. Mr. TOLAND. No. You said the first time he called you. Mr. ROHLEDER. That is right. Mr. TOLAND. You had a conversation with him? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is right. Mr. TOLAND. What happened after that particular conversation? Mr. ROHLEDER. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. Then what happened? Mr. ROHLEDER. I prepared estimates on the reconditioning of those various buildings. Mr. TOLAND. How long did that take you? Mr. ROHLEDER. I would say 4 weeks. Mr. TOLAND. Four weeks? Mr. ROHLEDER. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. Every day? Mr. ROHLEDER. Every day. Mr. TOLAND. You were there every day for 4 weeks? Mr. ROHLEDER. We were there off and on between my office and there yesterday. Mr. TOLAND. Did you work day and night during that period of time on those estimates? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir; we didn't work nights, but worked Sundays. Mr. TOLAND. You worked Sundays? Mr. ROHLEDER. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. You submitted to him your complete estimates of the cost of the rehabilitation of the buildings; isn't that right? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is right. Mr. TOLAND. So that the cost of the rehabilitation of the buildings had nothing to do with whether the yard was going to build merchant ships or cruisers; isn't that right? Mr. ROHLEDER. Well Mr. TOLAND. I am talking of the office buildings now. Mr. ROHLEDER. Oh, of the office building. All that estimate was based on a commercial yard. Mr. TOLAND. But the fact of the matter is that the cost, your estimates, to rehabilitate the office buildings had nothing to do with regard to whether they were going to build battleships, tugs, submarines, cruisers, or merchant ships. Isn't that a fact? Mr. ROHLEDER. That estimate was based on the scope of the specifications we prepared at that time. Mr. TOLAND. For the reconditioning of buildings? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is right, sir. Mr. TOLAND. That is right? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is right. Mr. TOLAND. You worked for him for 4 weeks? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is right. Mr. TOLAND. You were there nearly every day, including Sundays? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is right. Mr. TOLAND. What compensation did you receive for that? Mr. ROHLEDER. None whatsoever. Mr. TOLAND. How many people did you have working for you to help you to prepare the estimates? Mr. ROHLEDER. I had only one man with me. Mr. TOLAND. One man? Mr. ROHLEDER. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. What was his name? Mr. ROHLEDER William Russell. Mr. TOLAND. William Russell? Mr. ROHLEDER. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. He was an employee of yours? Mr. ROHLEDER. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. You were paying him, were you not? Mr. ROHLEDER. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. You submitted the estimates to Commander Weyerbacher? Mr. ROHLEDER. I gave Commander Weyerbacher or his assistant all my papers; practically all of them. Mr. TOLAND. I show you what purport to be certain files that we took from you with regard to estimates that you prepared, and ask you if they represent the working papers and the estimates that you now testify that you prepared with regard to the reopening of Cramp's? Mr. ROHLEDER. This is not the complete folder. Mr. TOLAND. That is not the complete folder? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir. Mr. TOLAND. Will you look at them and say for the record whether or not they represent work that you did during this period of time, and as to whether or not Mr. Russell also assisted you on those? Mr. ROHLEDER (examining file of papers). This is some of the papers. Mr. TOLAND. Look at them all, because I want to put them in the record. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you want him to indentify everything in there? Mr. TOLAND. Just the folders. I want him to indentify them or to say that they represent either the complete file of working papers or whatever part they represent of the estimates they made for Commander Weyerbacher in 1939. Mr. ROHLEDER. All the original papers were given to the commander. Mr. TOLAND. Do those files represent your working papers? Mr. TOLAND. Some of them? Not all of them? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir. Mr. TOLAND. How much more would you say you submitted? Mr. ROHLEDER. Yes, sir, and these are all in duplicate. Mr. TOLAND. Do you go around making it a practice of working for people for nothing and spending a month of your time, paying an employee, and preparing estimates on the cost of rehabilitation of a yard or a building? sir. Mr. ROHLEDER. That is part of the contractor's service, sir. Mr. ROHLEDER. I have done it for most all of my customers, yes, The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Pardon me, are you going to put them in evidence? Mr. TOLAND. I offer them in evidence, not to be printed. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. You had better put in evidence that Mr. Rohleder has identified them in a general way without identifying every document, because he hasn't had the opportunity. Mr. TOLAND. I will give him that opportunity. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you want him to examine every paper there? Mr. TOLAND. I want him to look at the file, to say that he testified that they represent about one-third of the papers of the file. Mr. ROHLEDER. That is part of our paper work on the buildings. (The file of papers referred to was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 285," and is on file with the committee.) Mr. TOLAND. Now, tell this committee what other company and what other job you submitted an estimate on where you spent 4 weeks of your time and had one employee or more employees assisting you in preparing the estimates. Mr. ROHLEDER. It doesn't always take 4 weeks' time. Mr. TOLAND. You made a statement there-I asked you if you had done this in any other instance. I want you to tell this committee whether or not during the period of time that you have been a general contractor, you have ever spent 4 weeks making an estimate as to the cost of construction or rehabilitation, where you have spent practically every day of the 4 weeks' time, and that you had an em ployee or employees that you were paying who were working for you in connection with the preparation of the estimate. Mr. ROHLEDER. Not 4 weeks; no, sir. Mr. TOLAND. What would you say was the longest time, where you had no contract, that you yourself, together with any employee or employees of your company, spent in preparing estimates for any contract that you might bid on? Mr. ROHLEDER. Oh, 2 or 3 days, maybe 4 days. Mr. TOLAND. Two or three days? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is right. Mr. TOLAND. When you submitted the estimate to Commander Weyerbacher, what did he say to you? Did he thank you? Mr. ROHLEDER. Not necessarily; no. Mr. TOLAND. He didn't even thank you? Mr. ROHLEDER. No. Mr. TOLAND. Didn't even pay you? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir. Mr. TOLAND. Did he make any promises to you? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir. Mr. TOLAND. Was there any understanding that because of the work that you did, when he became vice president or president, as he had hoped to be at that time-that is a fact, isn't it? Mr. ROHLEDER. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. He had hoped to be the president of this company? Mr. ROHLEDER. Yes. Mr. TOLAND. Was there any understanding that he was going to take care of you and slip you the contracts, or did he slip them to you? Mr. ROHLEDER. No, sir; he didn't slip them to me either, sir. Mr. TOLAND. Let's see if he didn't. Mr. ROHLEDER. All right. Mr. TOLAND. You say that on October 29, 1940, you got the contract, your first contract. Is that right? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is right. I think it was October 29. Mr. TOLAND. October 29. I want to show you committee exhibit 274 and ask you if you ever saw this exhibit before, whether Commander Weyerbacher ever exhibited it to you or showed it to you, and if the attached bid of yours represented the bid that you submitted. Mr. ROHLEDER. I never saw this document. I never saw this quotation approval. Mr. TOLAND. Do you see what is attached to it? Take a look at it. Mr. ROHLEDER (examining paper). That is the purchase order. Mr. TOLAND. Take a look at the rest of the papers. Is that your bid? Does that bear your signature? Mr. ROHLEDER. That is my signature; yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. You submitted that, didn't you, or you signed it? Mr. ROHLEDER. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. Where was that prepared? Mr ROHLEDER. Where was this prepared? Mr. TOLAND. Yes. Mr. ROHLEDER. Cramp Shipbuilding Co.'s office, purchasing depart ment. Mr. TOLAND. That is what? |