Mr. TOLAND. But the fact of the matter is that the money didn't come from Mr. Smith; it came from Merchant-Sterling, didn't it? Mr. MASTERSON. I don't know where the money came from.

Mr. TOLAND. I would like to read the letter, addressed to Commander Weyerbacher:

The enclosed check for $3,000 is being sent you in payment on account for an investigation and report of the cost of rehabilitation of The William Cramp & Sons Ship & Engine Building Co. plant at Philadelphia, Pa., which you are hereby retained to make for us.

It is understood that you will purchase whatever materials and engage the services of whatever personnel is necessary to make the investigation and that this corporation will accept no responsibility except for the payment to you of the cost of making the investigation and report.

It is understood and agreed that the cost to us will be the exact cost to you, plus a retaining fee at the rate of $500 per month during the period you are retained to continue the investigation.

You will advise us when further advances are necessary and at the same time make an accounting for the $3,000 which is hereby advanced to you Very truly yours,

I offer the letter in evidence.

MERCHANT-STERLING CORPORATION,
J. J. FITZGERALD, Treasurer.

(The letter was received in evidence and marked "Exhibit No. 238B".)

Mr. TOLAND. Isn't this your deposit book?

Mr. MASTERSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. And it represents the money received by the commander?

Mr. MASTERSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. This represents the money received by the commander?

Mr. MASTERSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. What is this item in this book of check stubs for, can you recall?

Mr. MASTERSON. That is a check for Commander Weyerbacher and the break-down is, expenses to March 31, $35, and $65 advance on expenses.

Mr. TOLAND. That is all.

(The deposit book of the Kensington National Bank, Philadelphia, in account with R. D. Weyerbacher, was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 239" and is filed with the committee.)

(The book of check stubs of R. D. Weyerbacher was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 240" and is filed with the committee.)

Mr. TOLAND. Miss Eckert, will you stand and raise your right hand?

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Do you solemnly swear the evidence you shall give the Naval Affairs Committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Miss ECKERT. I do.

TESTIMONY OF MISS MARION REBECCA ECKERT, SECRETARY TO
CHARLES F. ROHLEDER, PHILADELPHIA, PA.

Mr. TOLAND. Miss Eckert, give the reporter your full name.
Miss ECKERT. Marion Rebecca Eckert.

Mr. TOLAND. Where do you live, Miss Eckert?
Miss ECKERT. 4356 Freeland Avenue, Philadelphia.
Mr. TOLAND. Where are you employed?

Miss ECKERT. By Charles F. Rohleder.

Mr. TOLAND. How long have you been employed by him?
Miss ECKERT. I believe it was around December 1940.
Mr.TOLAND. You are still at Cramp Shipbuilding Co. ?
Miss ECKERT. No; I am at his office in town.

Mr. TOLAND. His downtown office?

Miss ECKERT. Yes.

Mr. TOLAND. What is your position with Mr. Rohleder?

Miss ECKERT. Secretary.

Mr. TOLAND. Now, Miss Eckert, what are your duties as secretary? Miss ECKERT. Well, I act as a buffer for Mr. Rohleder.

Mr. TOLAND. As a buffer?

Miss ECKERT. Yes; and while at Cramp, I took the major portion of his dictation, and I took care of the approval of all orders, subcontract orders.

Mr. TOLAND. You approved all the subcontracts?

Miss ECKERT. NO; I saw to it—you see, Mr. Baldridge had all the work of compiling them and they came over my desk, and I would see that we had the necessary papers to turn over to Mr. Rohleder for his signature, and from there they would be turned over to Mr. Rust in the enginering department, and I would follow them through to make sure they would get back and would have the approval of the orders before work commenced.

Mr. TOLAND. Did you ever ask anybody for complimentary bids? Miss ECKERT. Never.

Mr. TOLAND. I show you what purports to be a letter dated July 25, addressed to Mr. W. M. Anderson, and ask you if you recall transcribing that letter?

Miss ECKERT, Yes; I transcribed the letter.

Mr. TOLAND. Who dictated it?

Miss ECKERT. Mr. Rohleder dictated it, but it wasn't mailed.

Mr. TOLAND. When did you first find out it wasn't mailed?

Miss ECKERT. The following day.

Mr. TOLAND. The following day?

Miss ECKERT. That is right.

Mr. TOLAND. Is that a fact?

Miss ECKERT. Absolutely.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. The day after it was written?

Miss ECKERT. That is correct.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What day was it written, Mr. Toland?
Mr. TOLAND. On the 25th day of July 1941.

Do

you remember a conference you had with the members of the staff of this committee on the 10th day of October about this letter? Miss ECKERT. Yes; that is correct.

Mr. TOLAND. Did you make a statement to any members of this staff that you knew this letter was not mailed the following day? Miss ECKERT. I stated it was not mailed the following day. I didn't say "the following day," but I knew it wasn't mailed.

Mr. TOLAND. Didn't you say that day you were not told it was not

mailed?

Miss ECKERT. No. I knew it wasn't mailed.

Mr. TOLAND. Isn't it a fact that Mr. Rohleder at that conference said that he did not mail the original, and that you said in the presence of the investigators of this committee that he had never told you that he had destroyed the original?

Miss ECKERT. No; I did not say that.

Mr. TOLAND. Mr. Burns, will you take the stand?
You were sworn yesterday.

TESTIMONY OF VINCENT A. BURNS, MEMBER OF STAFF OF THE NAVAL AFFAIRS INVESTIGATING COMMITTEE

Mr. TOLAND. This is a copy of a letter that Mr. Burns found in the files of Mr. Rohleder. Do you recall when it was you found it?

Mr. BURNS. I didn't personally find it. It was taken from the files by Mr. Hollenbeck and Mr. McGinty, who went to Rohleder's downtown office and found it in the files and brought it back to me.

Mr. TOLAND. That was after September 14, 1941?

Mr. BURNS. I believe the date they took it is in that memorandum. Mr. TOLAND. The letter reads:

DEAR BILL

Mr. SUTPHIN (interposing). Who is the letter to?
Mr. TOLAND. William M. Anderson.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Any company?

Mr. TOLAND. No; just Philadelphia. I will bring out who he is. Confirming our phone conversation today, there is a small job covering "fire damage" to the I. P. Morris Buildings of Cramp Shipbuilding Co., which is coming out for estimates, on which they have asked the following contractors: Pobert E. Lamb Co., Frank G. Stewart Co., Turner Construction Co., MurphyQuigley Co., Townsend Schroder & Wood, Inc., Frank V. Warren, Inc., and myself.

Frank G. Stewart Co., and Murphy-Quigley Co. I can control, as I give them at various times competitive estimates and they do likewise for me, but the other four I have absolutely no control.

For your information, it was through my estimate, my personal conferences with the insurance representative, and I feel through my entire effort that the Cramp Co. received a satisfactory settlement from the insurance company.

If it were left up to the Cramp officials, Commander Weyerbacher would award me this work without competition. This he promised to do, but the Navy got into the picture and inasmuch as any money left over from the insurance company for this fire damage must go into the budget money that is supplied by the United States Navy, the supervisor of shipbuilding insists this work is put out for competitive estimates. Not for the reason they do not want me to have this work, but for the reason they are afraid of criticism from Washington later. Inasmuch as I am doing all of the work in the I. P. Morris Buildings, and this work ties in directly with the rest of my work, I am naturally very anxious to receive a contract for the balance of this work at a fair price.

If there is anything that you can do, to arrange for the four above-mentioned contractors to give me complimentary estimates on this work it will be appreciated, as I feel if there is ever one job in this world that I am really entitled to, it is this one.

Your help will surely be appreciated.

I offer that in evidence.

(The letter was received in evidence, and marked "Exhibit No. 241.")

Mr. MAAS. Whom was that communication addressed to?

Mr. TOLAND. Tell the committee who Mr. Anderson is.

Mr. BURNS. Mr. Anderson is a plumbing contractor in Philadelphia. I am not sure of the figures, but I believe he had 90 percent or more, or perhaps 100 percent, of all the plumbing and steam contracting that was done in the rehabilitation contract at Cramp. It is the W. M. Anderson Co., and he is the owner and president of the company. The letter was addressed to him.

Mr. MAAS. In what way would he be able to help get this contract? Mr. BURNS. I think you will have to ask somebody else that question.

Mr. COLE. What kind of work does this letter refer to?

Mr. BURNS. This letter refers to what is known as the fire-damage contract. There was property up there across the street from the main office building of the shipyard building office which is known as the I. P. Morris Co., and there was a fire there, after the Cramp people had bought this building, and I think it was before they had started to rehabilitate it to make it into, I think, a turret shop. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Was that the fire in the lumber yard? Mr. BURNS. There was a fire there, but the building itself was damaged to the extent of sixty-odd-thousand dollars; at least that was the insurance settlement, and this fire-damage contract was to repair the damage done by the fire to the building, not the lumber yard. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. It was the result of the fire in the lumber yard. It spread over.

Mr. BURNS. I don't know. It happened before I got to Philadelphia. Mr. TOLAND. Mr. Burns, I show you what purports to be a report dated October 10, 1941, to me from yourself with regard to the letter that I have just offered in the record. I ask you to read it and see if that is a correct statement of what transpired at that meeting.

Mr. BURNS. I just read it a moment ago, and it is.

Mr. TOLAND. I offer it in evidence.

(The report was received in evidence and marked "Exhibit No. 242.")

Mr. TOLAND. Now will you tell the committee what the conference was with Miss Eckert on the 10th of October?

Mr. BURNS. As I recall it-or shall I refer to the report? I think it would be more accurate.

Mr. TOLAND. I would refer to the letter or the report.

Mr. BURNS. Do you want me to read it?

Mr. TOLAND. Yes.

Mr. BURNS. This is from Vincent A. Burns to Edmund M. Toland, general counsel, House Naval Affairs Investigating Committee:

Yesterday morning, some time after 10 o'clock, John McGinty and Max Hollenbeck on my instructions went to the Philadelphia office of Charles F. Rohleder, the general contractor who now holds about 52 percent of the rehabilitation contract at the Cramp Shipbuilding Co. They were accompanied by Miss Marion Eckert, Rohleder's private secretary. While in the office of Rohleder they obtained several papers, copies of letters, memoranda, etc., and among these the carbon copy of a letter dated July 25, 1941, addressed to Mr. William M. Anderson, 600 Schuylkill Avenue, Philadelphia, Pa. (photostatic copy of this letter is attached herewith). This letter is unsigned and uninitialed by the typist.

This morning at about 10 o'clock I phoned Miss Eckert at her office here at the Cramp Shipbuilding Co. and asked her to request Mr. Rohleder for permission for her to come to the office assigned to me here on the second floor

for the purpose of identifying several papers, letters, etc., which were obtained from Rohleder's Philadelphia office yesterday. In a few minutes she and Mr. Rohleder came to my office and with John McGinty present I questioned both Miss Eckert and Rohleder, the substance of which was as follows:

She stated that the method of setting up the date on all letters typed by her was distinctively her own; that was her trade-mark. She stated that all letters dictated for Mr. Rohleder were personally posted by her unless posted by Mr. Rohleder himself. In the course of questioning her regarding certain procedures in her office, Mr. Rohleder very perceptibly upset and nervous interrupted and stated "You fellows took a copy of a letter yesterday out of my files which I wrote to Bill Anderson and I don't think it's fair. I want to tell you how that letter happened to be written and what happened to it. I worked for 4 or 5 nights trying to get a fair adjustment with the insurance people on the damage caused by the fire on the Morris property and finally got a good settlement. Commander Weyerbacher told me that he would negotiate a contract with me on this fire damage contract as soon as I could adjust the matter with the insurance company. Then about that time the Navy Department started getting finicky and said there wouldn't be any negotiated contracts. If anybody ever deserved that repair job, I did, after all the work I did settling the insurance question and all. At one time I told Commander Weyerbacher that I would do the contract at cost, that I didn't want any fee and that anything left over from the insurance adjustment, they could turn back to the Budget. But the Navy Department still insisted on competitive bids. So I wrote that letter that you got yesterday to Bill Anderson. I dictated it, put it in an envelope, sealed it and stamped it, and took it out of the office myself when I was going home that night. On the way out of the office I got thinking it over and decided before mailing it I'd sleep on it. The next morning, I decided I'd be a damn fool to send Bill Anderson a letter like that and put myself in a position of having to pay back an obligation to him. I tore up the letter and threw it away.' (At this point Miss Eckert broke in and said "but you never told me to tear up the carbon copy which these fellows got yesterday.")

I stated to Rohleder that I was not particularly interested in any favors he may have been seeking from Anderson or vice versa but what I was interested in was that it was apparently the custom in Philadelphia among contractors as well as subcontractors to get together whenever a bid was about to be asked. He denied this at first, with which I rejoined, "You stated that exactly in your letter." He then said, "Well, yes; we do that under certain circumstances when a contractor gets in and gets a big job we feel that when additional work comes along in conjunction with the same job the original contractor ought to stay in there." I said, "In other words, you got in here on the original contract, so your pals figure that as long as Rohleder is in at Cramp we will let him stay and when these additional contracts come up we'll give him complimentary bids. And by the same token if one of your pals who gives you these complimentary bids gets a big job over New York Ship or some other place and wants a complimentary bid from you, you figure he's in there, so I'll give him a complimentary bid. Is that right?" To this Mr. Rohleder replied, "That's about the size of it." Miss Eckert spoke up and said, "Well, Mr. Burns, when a contractor comes into a big job like this, why shouldn't he stay in? He has his men and working force on the job and much better work is done if he can go ahead and finish the job without having a new contractor or subcontractor come in every other day interfering with his work." I said that I was not a contractor nor did I belong to the Navy; I was only interested in seeing that the order which the Navy Department had sent out with regard to competitive bidding had been followed at Cramps. Mr. Rohleder who had not been seated during any of this conversation then came over toward the desk and said, "Will you give me the copy of that letter you got yesterday out of my files?" I said that I did not have it, that it was my usual procedure to make a report each evening of my work of the day and any mail, correspondence, or memoranda which I obtained in this investigation was usually mailed on the same night to Washington. He rather dejectedly said, "It isn't fair," and walked out of my office with Miss Eckert.

Yesterday afternoon about 5:40, Hollenbeck, McGinty, Lieutenant Davidson, of the Navy Department, and myself went to the office of William M. Anderson