GREAT LAKES TRAINING STATION STATEMENT OF CAPT. C. C. HARTIGAN, UNITED STATES NAVY Admiral RICHARDSON. Captain Hartigan will discuss that. Senator BYRNES. We will be glad to hear Captain Hartigan on that. Captain HARTIGAN. The bill as reported to the House of Representatives provides for opening the Naval Training Station, Great Lakes. Although a sum of money was inserted under the appropriation "Training, education, and welfare", for the Naval Training Station, Great Lakes, expenses occur under other appropriations which were not provided for. In the case of "Miscellaneous expenses", it is necessary to provide a total of $15,360 for this purpose. It is, therefore, recommended that on page 3, line 7, the limitation of $170,000 be raised to $183,360; that on page 3, line 18, the sum of $1,055,700 be increased to $1,071,060, and that on page 4, line 3, the limitation for the pay of group IVb employees be raised from $510,000 to $511,500. These changes will provide additional sums of $1,500 for pay of clerical employees, $13,360 for telephone, telegraph, and teletype rentals and tolls, and so forth, and $500 for postage. That is all due to the opening of the Great Lakes Training Station. Senator BYRNES. Well, that is if the training station is opened and when it is opened. It is closed now. Captain HARTIGAN. Yes, sir. Senator BYRNES. But, did you submit this item to the House? Captain HARTIGAN. Sir? Senator BYRNES. Did you submit this proposal to the House, with that recommendation? Captain HARTIGAN. No, sir; when the bill was reported out, it provided for the opening of the training station there. Senator BYRNES. Did the Navy Department recommend it? Senator WALSH. Last year, the House bill had a similar provision in it with regard to the Great Lakes Training Station and it was stricken out in the Senate. You tried to open it last year; am I correct? Senator METCALF. The Navy has not asked that it be opened? Captain HARTIGAN. No, sir. Senator METCALF. The House put it in. Captain HARTIGAN. Yes, sir. Senator METCALF. And they did the same last year. Admiral RICHARDSON. The House put it in, but did not put in adequate funds to open and operate the station in case it is opened and operated, and in this memorandum we have submitted under the various appropriations the amount that should be added if that station is to be opened and operated. Senator HALE. Are there other appropriations covering the opening and operating of the Great Lakes Training Station? Admiral RICHARDSON. Yes, sir. The only item or provision made for the opening and operating of the training station of the Great Lakes was an item by the House which makes appropriation for "Training, education, and welfare", but the expenses for opening and operating the station will be increased under 3 or 4 other appropriations. Senator HALE. Therefore, if you are going to open the station, you have got to have these appropriations. Admiral RICHARDSON. Yes, sir. For the purpose of informing the committee, we have indicated what the total increases should be should Congress authorize and provide funds for the opening and operating of this station. The Navy Department does not urge the addition of these funds, but thinks that it would be prudent to point out to the committee that in case the station is opened it will be necessary to provide for proper operation of the station, to have these additional funds. Senator WALSH. If Congress wants to open the station and spend the money, the Navy Department is willing to spend it? Admiral RICHARDSON. Yes, sir. Senator BYRNES. Let me ask you about it, to get it correctly. I might ask you if the Department did not ask the House for it? There is a statement on page 154 of the House hearings showing "estimated cost to maintain naval training station and hospital in inactive status, to reopen and to operate in 1936." Admiral RICHARDSON. In reply to a request from the members of the Appropriations Committee of the House, we submitted a complete statement of what charges would be involved. Senator BYRNES. Right. Admiral RICHARDSON. In case the station were opened by the direction of Congress. Senator BYRNES. Yes. Admiral RICHARDSON. The figures that we are now asking for cover items in case the station is to be opened and operated and are practically identical. They are identical with the figures that we submitted to the House Appropriations Committee, except in one or two small items which the Bureaus felt that they could absorb without any addition to their own appropriations. Senator BYRNES. That is what I first asked, and I will, therefore, get back to it. The facts are then that you asked this amount of the House. Did the House or did it not allow it? Now, your statement is that it was expected that it would be absorbed by other bureaus, that the items were recommended, and the action of the House was not to allow it. Admiral RICHARDSON. Well, Senator, the Navy did not originally ask to have this station opened at all. Senator BYRNES. I know that. Admiral RICHARDSON. But when they asked us how much it would cost to open and operate it, we set forth a complete statement of the changes that would be involved under every appropriation. Senator BYRNES. All right; and they allowed certain items, but did not provide for this. Admiral RICHARDSON. They allowed only one. Senator BRYNES. Only one? Admiral RICHARDSON. One appropriation was increased, and that increase was an inadequate amount. Senator BYRNES. Then, you cover several items? Admiral RICHARDSON. Yes, sir. Senator BYRNES. There are several items involved, if the station is to be opened and operated. Admiral RICHARDSON. Yes, sir; at least four or five. The following table shows all increases now requested: Bureau of Navigation: Naval training station, Great Lakes, Ill. (a) Naval training station, Great Lakes.. Training, education, and welfare: (c) Welfare and recreation_ Bureau of Supplies and Accounts: Maintenance, Bureau of Supplies and Accounts Bureau of Medicine and Surgery: Medical Department Naval Hospital Fund. Office of Naval Operations: Miscellaneous expenses, Navy. Additions to House appropriations requested of Senate $34, 578 3,000 3,000 80, 540 79, 400 169, 865 15, 360 215, 878 169, 865 385, 743 [NOTE: Difference between these figures and those in table on page 154, hearings before subcommittee of House Committee on Appropriations, represents sums to be absorbed in Bureau appropriations.] Senator METCALF. You will have to provide for hospital facilities. Admiral RICHARDSON. They need a hospital and it will be necessary at the present time. The House made no provision for that and the Surgeon General of the Navy is prepared to fully present the facts in that connection. Senator BYRNES. If the station is opened, this item needs to be increased some $15,360, for "miscellaneous expenses." Captain HARTIGAN. Yes, absolutely. Senator BYRNES. Is there anything else you desire to say? Captain HARTIGAN. No, sir. Senator HALE. One minute. If the station is not to be opened, it would not be necessary to provide these funds? Captain HARTIGAN. No, sir; if it is not to be opened. Senator HALE. If it is to be opened? Captain HARTIGAN. Yes, sir. Senator BYRNES. All right, the next item is on page 5. NAVAL RESEARCH LABORATORY Admiral RICHARDSON. Captain Greenlee will discuss that. STATEMENT OF CAPT. H. R. GREENLEE, DIRECTOR NAVAL RESEARCH LABORATORY, UNITED STATES NAVY Senator BYRNES. Page 5, lines 6 and 13. There is a proposed change. Captain Greenlee, will you make any statement you desire with reference to this change on page 5, lines 6 and 13. Captain GREENLEE. The bill as reported to the House of Representatives increases the appropriation for the Naval Research Laboratory from $210,000 to $310,000. The report of the committee stated that of this sum $30,000 additional had been allocated for the engagement of more scientific and technical personnel. But, with that increase, they made only an increase of $30,000 under a limitation to spend for contract employees. They made no increase in the classification limitation for the regular staff. That figure was left at $90,000. The figure for temporary employees was increased from $20,000 to $50,000. The research laboratory is on a somewhat different basis from any naval stations in that the greater the percentage of funds that can be put into labor, such as scientists and technicians, the more efficiently the money is spent. Without the recommended increases in limitations, which have no effect on the total sum itself, this money cannot be expended wisely. Senator BYRNES. All right. What are your views with reference to line 13, where you propose to change the $90,000 to $120,000? Senator HALE. Was this recommended by the Budget; this increase? Captain GREENLEE. The increase of $100,000? Senator HALE. Yes. Captain GREENLEE. No, sir. Senator HALE. The Navy Department asked for it? Senator BYRNES. As to this line 13, that increase in which you are interested, that was effected on the floor of the House; is that right? Captain GREENLEE. It was; yes, sir. Senator BYRNES. That does not involve the amount to which you have referred; does not involve an increase in the total appropriation? Captain GREENLEE. No, sir; simply gives us an opportunity of getting scientists and technicians which, without an increase and without these limitations, we could not get and therefore we could not spend the money on actual research work. Senator BYRNES. What was the Budget's recommendation at the outset? Captain GREENLEE. The Budget's estimate was $210,000 for the total appropriation with the limitation of $20,000 on temporary employees and $90,000 for those on the classified rolls. Senator HALE. What was the occasion of the increase from $210,000 to $310,000? Captain GREENLEE. The naval subcommittee of the Appropriations Committee visited the laboratory and as a result of that visit their conclusion was that the laboratory was definitely hampered by lack of funds, and that more research work should go forward. Senator HALE. While the Navy Department did not ask for it and the Budget Director did not recommend it, I take it that that money could be spent for employees in that way, could it not? Captain GREENLEE. Yes, sir; and much more. Senator BYRNES. All right, is that all, Admiral? Do any members of the committee have any further questions? Thank you, Captain. NEWPORT (R. 1.) TRAINING STATION Senator BYRNES. The next is on page 7. Admiral RICHARDSON. Captain McCain. STATEMENT OF CAPT. J. S. McCAIN, UNITED STATES NAVY Captain MCCAIN. The appropriation for Newport, R. I., requested by the station and approved by the Bureau of the Budget was $115,559. The appropriation for the last full year of training, 1933, was $202,000. During this year 1,004 recruits were handled by the station, and it is estimated 6,200 will be handled in the fiscal year 1936. The money estimate for the station is a very economical one. However, it was decreased by $12,500 by the House Committee on Appropriations on the grounds that the $15,000 carried under the "Contingent" heading was too great an amount. With respect to this, the commanding officer of the training station stated: As the total estimate for 1936 is appreciably lower than previous estimates submitted to the Bureau, and much less than the actual expenditures for the years when the station was in full operation, it is deemed advisable to include this item of $15,000 to act as a reserve for contingencies which might arise. This reserve, if not otherwise required, will be used for the preservation of buildings, roads, etc., and to prevent deterioration as much as possible. Such items as mess gear and galley equipment charges will be considerable incident to reopening. Charges for the fire department are included, also loose and hand tools. A large contingent item when undertaking a new operation such as the opening of the training station is not unreasonable, inasmuch as in process of opening and operating the plant, defects heretofore overlooked by inspection may be expected to develop. Senator BYRNES. Captain, the House Committee report states: The estimate for this establishment includes an item of $15,000 for contingent expenses, the justification for which is that it may be needed to rehabilitate power and telephone conduits if an allotment for such purposes is not granted by the P. W. A. Obviously, no appropriation should be provided in response to a request founded upon such contingency. The committee, therefore, has disallowed $12,500, leaving $2,500 for purely contingent uses. That is the difference in the amount. Captain MCCAIN. That is it exactly, Senator. Senator BYRNES. And that is the amount which you ask the committee to put into the bill. Captain MCCAIN. Yes, sir. Senator BYRNES. That is the reason. Captain MCCAIN. Yes, sir. Senator BYRNES. Is that a correct statement of it? Captain MCCAIN. No, sir; I think the House committee's statement is incorrect. Senator BYRNES. In what respect? Captain MCCAIN. The House committee made a point in the statement of the commanding officer at Newport to the effect that he might use this $15,000 for repair of salt-water lines in case he failed to secure money from the Public Works, but, in fact, the $15,000 was a contingent item recommended by the commanding officer in order that he might use it wherever needed for anything that might develop in the station. It is quite likely that inspection may have failed to have uncovered defects in a plant that has not been in operation, which would become apparent after operating for a short time. Senator BYRNES. The statement is correct that he did say that, however? Captain MCCAIN. He did make that statement; yes, sir. |